BIP Project - Ruins of Undermountain Expansion

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Perhaps the grandest project in sheer scale that the Back In Print Project is working on would be the Ruins of Undermountain expansion material. This is an ongoing project with several releases that will be completed over the course of years!

As we covered in another thread, the original Ruins of Undermountain box set detailed Levels 1-3. Level 4 is the Farms Level, and has never been developed. TSR skipped over that level and detailed Levels 5 & 6 in the inappropriately named Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deep Levels box set. Unfortunately, those levels were poorly conceived, and were terribly disappointing. No other major levels were ever developed. Only a few sub-levels were done in module form or thrown into the second box set.

So there's a lot of work left to do!

The Back In Print Project is currently developing a project called Ruins of Undemountain III: The Deadly Levels. This will deal with Levels 7 & 8 of Undermountain. It will also detail two sub-levels.

We're skipping Level 4 for the time being, probably for the same reason TSR skipped over it...it's a farm! While this could be an interesting level, it would be very difficult to develop and also difficult to game in, being the food source level of Undermountain and thus heavily guarded.

After that, we will be developing the final of the major Undermountain releases...Ruins of Undermountain IV: Lair of the Mad Mage. This will cover Level 9 (Halaster's personal abode). It will also cover two sub-levels, including a deep sub-level run by Halaster's most powerful and (to this point in time) unnamed of his original Seven Apprentices. Level 9 is a double-sized level and extremely challenging!

At that point, we will not develop the remainder of the 14 known sub-levels that have not yet been developed. Gotta leave something for the DM to work with! Instead, we will re-visit (ie re-write from scratch) Level 5 and Level 6. These levels deal with two of Halaster's most exciting apprentices, and they were totally dreadful and uninspired in the second official box set from TSR. Poorly written, silly, tons of missed opportunities, uncreative...they were a total let-down to most Undermountain fans. We have some ideas for those levels that blow away what was slopped out by TSR.

Along with that, we are working with someone who's been detailing expansions of the undeveloped areas of first three levels that were presented in the original box set. We'll be calling that project Return to the Ruins of Undermountain, as it is indeed a return to earlier levels (Levels 1-3).

So all-in-all, a lot of work but a labor of love!

Much of Level 7 is written, and I have extensive notes done for Level 8 and Level 9, so I am actually working ahead as ideas pop into my head. I also have reams of notes for the Level 5 and Level 6 revisions.

That's what's being worked on right now. We may decide to go for broke if the momentum starts rolling and simply detail Level 4, the Farms Level. We'll see how it goes. Anyway, that's what's being planned.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Just edited a typo here dealing with that is being developed in which release.

Also, I have to admit that I'm really excited about re-doing Trobriand's and Muiral's levels. Good lord, those levels from RoUII reeked to the Nine Hells!

I think what we'll be doing with them is much more fun and exciting than fighting a couple of silly mechanical crabs!

Also, the map for Halaster's Lair (Level 9) will be a double-sized map, but not like Level 3, where it's joined south-to-north. This one will be joined east-to-west, so it'll be like two posters side by side instead of one poster on top of the other, if that makes sense.

I'm just getting back into the swing/discipline of writing, so work on Levels 7 and 8 commences. Lorne indicated he could probably polish off the map for Level 7, which would be great. We'll still need a mapper to convert my hand drawn maps for Level 8 into print format, so if anyone is familiar with Campaign Cartographer, LMK.

[Beowulf]

Cool! I'm stoked to see what you've come up with.

[Varl]

We'll still need a mapper to convert my hand drawn maps for Level 8 into print format, so if anyone is familiar with Campaign Cartographer, LMK.

I have some limited experience with CC3. I've watched the tutorials, and am starting to get a better grasp on sheets and layers and how they work in CC3. When you say convert your hand drawn maps to CC3, what do you mean? The entire maps being recreated in CC3? I could probably do that, but seeing how large UM can be, that could take some time.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Right, the entire map in CC3. What I did with Lorne was send him that hand-drawn map (I believe I sent you a copy too, didn't I?). He then somehow translated the entire thing damned near perfectly do CC3 format. Even the caves were pretty much spot on. It's just dead-on perfect!

So that's what I'm looking to do again with Level 8 (and 9, and the sub-levels, and...).

We have plenty of time though, because I haven't really drawn up Level 8 as yet. I've been back and forth, and now I gotta sit down and go step by step...polish off Level 7, then go to Level 8. So you have some time to practice!

[Varl]

I think you did send me the maps if I can remember where I put them. Heh.

Send me what you have when you get them done, and I'll see what I can do.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Cool! I should start designing Level 8 in the near future, so it'll give you some more time to practice.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Ok who here is still proof-reading the Undermountain Project? I should have a handful of rooms in finished form ready for the first round of proofing soon. LMK?

[Jared Synn]

I can volunteer for some proof reading! I'm really good at catching typos and spelling\grammer errors.

(I wonder if anyone caught the humor there?)

[Mira]

the misspelling of grammar you mean?



Mina (The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes)

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I caught that ("grammer") and the backwards slash. But hey, Jared, if you're up to proofing, welcome aboard! We need all the help we can get. If you're an artist, I'll sign my first born over to you.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Ok, I wanted to announce a few changes to the Ruins of Undermountain project. I am so inspired that I had to do it!

First, Ruins of Undermountain III: The Deadly Levels will now include 3 levels, not 4. I originally planned on including 2 sub-levels as well as Levels 7 & 8. I changed my mind due to Level 8 being a double sized level.

Instead, we're going to cover Level 7: Arcturia's Abode and Level 8: The Slime Level, plus one sub-level. Level 8 is a double-sized level, so we'll still have 4 full poster-sized maps in it. Plus, there will be about 150 rooms developed altogether. In comparison, RoU covered 124 rooms and RoUII covered 134 rooms.

Ruins of Undermountain IV: Lair of the Mad Mage will cover nothing outside of Level 9: Halaster's Lair. This level, and this is set in stone, is going to be a quadruple-sized poster map! . So if you have the original box set, take the 4 posters that came with it and put them all together to form one giant poster that's roughly 42" x 62".

Ummmm...we're talking about a poster map that's almost 4ft wide and over 5ft tall! Go ahead...measure your wall. It'll knock your socks off!

After that, we're going to re-do that dreadfully crappy second box set, Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deep Levels (an inaccurate title as well!). I gotta think of a better subtitle than "The Deep Levels" when indeed it covers levels near the top and middle.

Anyway, for RoUII we will be totally re-doing Level 5: Trobriand's Graveyard and Level 6: Muiral's Gauntlet from scratch, completely ignoring the second box set as if it didn't exist. I also decided to go ahead and develop Level 4: The Farm Level because it would make Undermountain complete. It goes like this:

Ruins of Undermountain I detailed Levels 1, 2, and 3.
Ruins of Undermountain II (the new, BIP version) will cover Levels 4, 5, and 6.
Ruins of Undermountain III will cover Levels 7 and 8 (plus a sub-level).
Ruins of Undermountain IV will cover Level 9.

That's how it should have been done in the first place.

That leaves other sub-levels for future expansion, although I don't know if I'm personally going to want to develop them. After 6 main levels and a major sub-level, I may want to sample something else on the menu!

Anyway, that's what's in store now. I can't wait!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I just thought of something. I was puzzling over what we will call the re-working of Ruins of Undermountain II. It hit me that ideally, the releases would most accurately titled this way (with the levels each covers in parentheses):

Ruins of Undermountain ( Levels 1-3 )
Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deadly Levels ( Levels 4-6 )
Ruins of Undermountain III: The Deep Levels ( Levels 7-8 )
Ruins of Undermountain IV: Lair of the Mad Mage ( Level 9 )

Levels 4-6 are deadly, and Levels 7 & 8 are deeper, so that's how they should have done it. Instead, TSR screwed up and released RoUII as "The Deep Levels" when it actually details layers in the upper half of UM!

But, it's too late for that. We've already titled RoUIII "The Deadly Levels". But now we need an idea for RoUII when we re-work it. Any ideas?

[adidamps2]

I just thought of something. I was puzzling over what we will call the re-working of Ruins of Undermountain II. It hit me that ideally, the releases would most accurately titled this way (with the levels each covers in parentheses):

Ruins of Undermountain ( Levels 1-3 )
Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deadly Levels ( Levels 4-6 )
Ruins of Undermountain III: The Deep Levels ( Levels 7-8 )
Ruins of Undermountain IV: Lair of the Mad Mage ( Level 9 )

Levels 4-6 are deadly, and Levels 7 & 8 are deeper, so that's how they should have done it. Instead, TSR screwed up and released RoUII as "The Deep Levels" when it actually details layers in the upper half of UM!

But, it's too late for that. We've already titled RoUIII "The Deadly Levels". But now we need an idea for RoUII when we re-work it. Any ideas?

maybe soemthing like the "Forgotten levels" or the "Lost levels" or to keep with the "D" theme, but loose the Deep part, and go with the "Dangerous Levels" then we have the "Deadly" Levels after that!!!

well that's all I have to offer.

[Mira]

Ruins of Undermountain II: Descent into Madness



Mira (Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer)

[Minstrel]

The Dark Halls?

Best I could come up with tonight, maybe I'll be more creative tomorrow.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Well, it wouldn't make much sense to call the upper, most well-known levels the "forgotten" or "lost" levels.

Calling them the dangerous levels fits the "D" theme, but still sounds a bit off, because it almost implies that those levels are the most dangerous. They're not.

Descent Into Madness would probably fit Level 9 (Halaster's lair) best, although it does make sense in that you're just beginning the descent. But again, we want to call them some sort of levels, and "Descent Into Madness" sounds more like a module.

The Dark Halls isn't bad either, although we want to call them "The _____ Levels" in keeping with the "Levels" theme. And there's already a "Dark Levels", ie the 14 sub-levels group.

Hmmm.

[Doirche]

The Desolate Levels
The Deserted Levels
The Denizen Levels
The Desecrated Levels
The Deranged Levels
The Disavowed Levels
The Distant Levels
The Disconnected Levels
The Damned Levels

[adidamps2]

Calling them the dangerous levels fits the "D" theme, but still sounds a bit off, because it almost implies that those levels are the most dangerous. They're not.


Hmmm.

that would be made clear by the "Deadly" level of course, and Deadly is by definition more than just Dangerous...

[McDeath]

Hey Hal,

You must have moved the card thread into the devopement area as I got a message that a post was entered. As soon as I clicked the link in my email I got the "I don't have permission to view thread" message. I was kind of curious about the ideas in that particular thread.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I accidentally posted it in the public area, but it was supposed to posted in the development area.

So I moved it to the development area. I loved the ideas both of you posted, and I think if you both want to be credited, we can use most of those doors. Wow, we're going to have one heavily packed box set!

[McDeath]

For most I was considering the level depth so I didn't want to think of anything too lite in difficulty. Naturally the ideas need polishing and description. The turn to gold statue idea I actually got from Rahasia (though there was no teleportation of statue to a museum). I just figured it would make sense that Halastar might have a trophy room of defeated adventurers. I suppose even nastier would be animation of the statues in the museum(s) similar to constructs. Lord knows it is pretty hard to put together a chopped up stone statue that was once an actual person (maybe a wish would work).

Tesseracts/hypercubes are something I've just become acquainted with and find rather fascinating if not confusing.

Usally Rose Estes books are pretty bleh, but she does put a few ideas that seem interesting (the door of ice that is a wise cracking prick. sure you can hack its face to bits but it just melts back a new one). I think said door wouldn't be so easily defeated by just single lit torch though (i'd give it the ability to breathe icy gusts of wind to blow out torches). I'd probably give it a hp/ac type with a regeneration ability (except vs. opposed element). Different doors of ice might even have special attacks...cone of cold, ice storm, wall of ice, chill metal, ice ball, freezing cloud (sort of like pyrotechnic cloud), ice darts/ray, etc.

Naturally I would just stick to that element as you could have: fire, air, earth, any para/quasi element.

I also recall a door in a D&D adventure (gem&staff) where it was actually a solid black pudding (just looked like a black doorway).

I certaintly wouldn't rule out mimics as doors (esp specialized ones).

[McDeath]

Lol, almost an almost 13 year old post.