4E, has Hasbro finally delivered the killing blow?

[Mira]

I've seen the 4E PHB and it is far worse than I could ever have imagined. And I had really low expectations for it going in!

Clerics can start with an AT WILL ability that does 1d8 + their wisdom modifier damage, using their Wisdom vs the foes Reflex. It has a 5 square range AND one of their friends will get a +2 to hit that person! Who needs to use weapons?

Rogues can start with an AT WILL ability that after the rogue makes a successful hit, if that foe attacks back, the rogue can INTERUPT that attack with yet another attack!

Warlocks (yes, a WoW port I'm sure) have several AT WILL abilities that have a 10 square range and do 1d6 + Con mod damage, then do MORE damage if the foe attempts to attack in any way.

The wording of the game makes me cringe as well, they have a basic framework of rules, then "Every class, race, feat, power, and monster in the D&D game lets you break the rules in some way." (direct quote). All these EXPLOITS (their word!) are class and race specific and there's a lot of them!

I've played World of Warcraft and seen how each race and class can give you a large list of abilities. Not a terrible thing when you're only playing one character and you can learn all that stuff. Plus all the calculations and checks that need to be made are figured out by the computer. But take that to the table top, and now you're spending a LOT of time looking stuff up and doing calculations that a computer can do so much easier. Then you have the poor DM who has to deal with hundreds of abilities, It will be a nightmare to manage without a computer! (of course, that's where D&D insider comes in, lo and behold, a computer to manage those things! which you have to pay a monthly fee to use...)

I think they have finally found a way to get the game off the tabletop and imagination into a realm they comprehend how to make money from. It's a sad day.

Mira (Acupuncture is a jab well done)

[jeffx]

I've seen the 4E PHB and it is far worse than I could ever have imagined. And I had really low expectations for it going in!

I am also not all that happy with what I have read so far. My list of problems grow larger with each section I delve into. I will be playing it this Saturday at "Game Day" and will have better feeling for the game after that. If I were to switch to 4E it would certainly require a change in my campaign creation.

Clerics can start with an AT WILL ability that does 1d8 + their wisdom modifier damage, using their Wisdom vs the foes Reflex. It has a 5 square range AND one of their friends will get a +2 to hit that person! Who needs to use weapons?

I'm going to withhold judgement on the ability stuff until I have played AND read all the abilities. However, I don't like that nearly everything I have seen revolves around combat. Physical combat, not "smart" combat. Also, every first level character seems to be identical a first level cleric is a first level cleric. Damage inflation doesn't bother me so much as long as it is balanced.

The wording of the game makes me cringe as well, they have a basic framework of rules, then "Every class, race, feat, power, and monster in the D&D game lets you break the rules in some way." (direct quote). All these EXPLOITS (their word!) are class and race specific and there's a lot of them!

All they are saying is that it is exception based. Meaning everything works like A unless something overrides it. I won't defend their word choice but exception based rules are nothing new.

After Game Day (which I am unfortunately a player and not a DM in) I will have a better feel for the "easier" to play ideas. I do know that it is virtually impossible to play without miniatures (or markers of some form). Creating a campaign of your own appears to require you make battle maps.

I still don't see how it, or any other rule set, stops imagination.

[Minstrel]

I'll be interested to see how successful it will turn out to be. They're treading a fine line by having the game play so much like a computer game, and now strongly incorporating electronic elements as well. At some point, one would have to ask the question "why not just play a computer game?" and potentially abandon the tabletop altogether.

My guess is that that will happen at the point at which MMORPG's are able to generate imaginative, fresh new content much faster than they are now, to the point where you can log in and have a "new" adventure each time. With something like 4e as the market leading tabletop alternative, it seems to be the only substantial difference.

[Varl]

I've seen the 4E PHB and it is far worse than I could ever have imagined. And I had really low expectations for it going in!

Uh oh.

Clerics can start with an AT WILL ability that does 1d8 + their wisdom modifier damage, using their Wisdom vs the foes Reflex. It has a 5 square range AND one of their friends will get a +2 to hit that person! Who needs to use weapons?

Do they justify WHY clerics get these powerz? I can almost hear the mouse clicks and see the graphical displays.

Rogues can start with an AT WILL ability that after the rogue makes a successful hit, if that foe attacks back, the rogue can INTERUPT that attack with yet another attack!

O...M....G! So, in other words, once a rogue hits, that foe's pretty much screwed. This is so bad I almost can't type. I can't wait to see what their instants and sorceries do!

Warlocks (yes, a WoW port I'm sure) have several AT WILL abilities that have a 10 square range and do 1d6 + Con mod damage, then do MORE damage if the foe attempts to attack in any way.

Oh, of course! We can't have rogues having all the fun. I don't even want to know what warriors are capable of if rogues and warlocks can do this in combat!

The wording of the game makes me cringe as well, they have a basic framework of rules, then "Every class, race, feat, power, and monster in the D&D game lets you break the rules in some way." (direct quote).

Break the rules. What does that mean? Cheat? Are they saying every class, race, feat, power, and monster does not conform to a predictable manner, and that fighting two trolls back to back, throwing 2 Fireballs, or turning undead won't happen using the same rules every time? What madness is this? What game exists where the laws of the game itself are intentionally violated from one minute to the next? If that's how the game is going to be played, they shouldn't call it D&D. They need to call it CHAOS! Random probability. The game is truly dead now. From the sounds of it, I don't even think there's anything left to mine anymore. It's a slag pit where a forest used to be.

All these EXPLOITS (their word!) are class and race specific and there's a lot of them!

Exploits? They actually used that word?!? I got a better word for them. It's called CHEATS. I suggest they simply get away from dancing around terminologies and call these abominations what they really are: cheats. They basically allow you to do things you shouldn't, right? That's a cheat, at least it is in computerese. Exploits is such a bad word to use as a core term, I can barely express it.

I've played World of Warcraft and seen how each race and class can give you a large list of abilities. Not a terrible thing when you're only playing one character and you can learn all that stuff. Plus all the calculations and checks that need to be made are figured out by the computer. But take that to the table top, and now you're spending a LOT of time looking stuff up and doing calculations that a computer can do so much easier. Then you have the poor DM who has to deal with hundreds of abilities, It will be a nightmare to manage without a computer! (of course, that's where D&D insider comes in, lo and behold, a computer to manage those things! which you have to pay a monthly fee to use...)

LOL. And we thought 3e had a lot of things to track, huh?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I expected no less. I didn't need to see the game or read about it to know it would suck. It's the way things go these days. Continually dumbing things down. Catering to the lowliest common denominator. Changes for the sake of change even when the changes are idiotic. Addictive/compulsive marketing. How anyone could not see it coming or even doubt it is beyond me. I was willing to bet my soul that 4E woulds suck infinitely more than even 3E, and as usual I was right. No need to pick up the books or experience it. Call my psychic if you like. I prefer to just call it common sense.

3E was emasculated. There can be no argument about that. The problem is, what word to I use now for 4E? Emasculated is far too gentle a term. Castrated? Destroyed? It's a steaming pile of crap. And if I was harsh on the 3etards (the vast majority of, but not every, 3E gamer), imagine what I'll have to say about the 4E zombies, who will clearly have even less imagination than the previous generation!

"My cleric passes wind and causes a plague in 5 squares, which weakens 25 enemy pieces and gives my pieces a +2 bonus to their attack attempts. Then I pass wind again and heal 35 of my 50hp for the first time today. I want to save my other 5 pass wind/healing gifts for when things get really hairy, like say if we have to fight a monster that can actually do significant damage. Of course, if we do face such a monster, I'll just play my exploit card and kill it."



Rancid, steaming pile of crap designed for sycophant-tards dumb enough to continue forking over tons of money to WOTC in exchange for crap. I pray I run into one at a gaming store, while he's stocking up on the $500 worth of new 4E crap, the requisite two DMGs, the nifty new 4E FR campaign setting that's set 100 years into the future of his current FR campaign, and the new computer he'll need to run his "tabletop" campaign. I'll laugh in his face.

[McDeath]

Yes, point and laugh like the mad man in Black Adder (if you've ever watched those).

AHAHAHAHAHAHHA........... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA................ AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... etc.

Crap is right.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I'll do a Sam Kinison number on him!

"You just spent 50 hours working your ass off to earn a living, then you blew $500 of your hard-earned money trying to please the corporate bitch-mistress you serve, and she handed you a stinking pile of crap! It stinks! Look at it! It's crap! You bought crap! AAAAAHHHH! AAAAAHHHH!!! AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"



My favorite comedian ever!

http://www.kinison.com/

[Beowulf]

All the current games masquerading as Dungeons & Dragons are completely irrelevant, IMO. Once TSR was bought by WotC the real game was doomed. Damn WotC!

[Minstrel]

I just had a series of OMGWTF moments, each bigger and more eye gougingly painful than the last.

Fire breating half dragon paladins might just have paladin assassins beat.

Although, unaligned half demon warlock/paladins come pretty close.

This one was good for a chuckle too. Here's a quote:

Plus I was leaving out Gauntlets of Destruction, which matter at high levels and make an ENORMOUS difference for the rogue. Honestly, this is going to sink both their damages overall, but I think the rogue will come out ahead (sort of).

Well, yeah, of course, wouldn't want to leave out Gauntlets of Destruction. That's a given.

[Minstrel]

OK, just one more, Halaster I promise you'll love this gem:

The ogres are sharp enough to hear the intruders, and their very first action highlights the danger of climbing stairs over an open pit of lava. A large stone strikes Alex and knocks him into the searing liquid stone. Oleander and Barth engage the enemy while Melech and Andraste race to get Alex out of the lava before he burns to death. In the end, Andraste leaps in herself, hurls Alex to shore, and then fey steps to relative safety.

From the blog of Peter Schaefer of WotC.

Yeah, that's right, in 4e liquid hot MAGMA is a fairly survivable experience. Just fall in, don't worry, your companion can LEAP IN AFTER YOU, survive, and 'fey step', whatever the fuck that is, you to safety!

EDIT: after reading the rest of it, come to find out his character actually does die, after a second fall into lava. Ohhh, how deadly! His quote about his "next character" is what made me write the edit:

I wasn't sore at all. I was stunned for a minute or three, and a couple players at the table looked aghast, and then I resumed taking notes on game events while sketching out ideas for my next character. I was particularly interested in a doppelganger paladin of Ioun.

What is it with these guys and weird fucking "paladin" characters? Shit, I'm gonna play 4e and roll me up a fell anti-warlock swiss cheese monster of gorgonzola dual classed to count fucking Chocula.

EDIT EDIT: Phew, I was worried someone might actually die in 4e. Thankfully, Oleander's future party travelled back in time to save him in the next adventure.

[Varl]

OMG Minstrel! You are DA MAN!!! I haven't even read those links yet, and I am laughing so hard, my sides hurt! And I hope you said "Liquid hot MAGMA" in its proper, Dr. Evil voice. ROFL!

It hurts! It hurts! Somebody stop the lunacy the 4orons are deploying! SOMEBODY SHOOT!

Edit: BTW, Minstrel, that wasn't Alex that died the second time falling into the lava. It was Oleander. I made a nice, snarky reply to Peter's story. Let's see what his response will be. I'm betting banning.

[Varl]

Apologies in advance for the quote size, but this just has to be shown to be believed:

Name: Kriv
Level/Alignment: Lvl 1 Lawful Good Paladin
Race: Dragonborn
Class: Paladin
Role: Defender
Deity: Bahamut
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Height: 6’8”
Weight: 315 lbs.
Languages: Common, Draconic
HPs Gained/Lvl: 6
Build Type: Protecting Paladin
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail,
scale, plate; light shield, heavy shield

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee,
simple ranged

Implements: Holy symbol
*Racial Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Cha. Dragonborn Fury: When you’re bloodied, you gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls. Draconic Heritage: Your Healing Surge value is equal to one-quarter of your max hit points + your Con modifier. Dragon Breath: You can use Dragon Breath as an encounter power.

Ability Scores
Str 18* (+4), Con 12 (+1), Dex 12 (+1), Int 8 (-1) , Wis 13 (+1), Cha 16* (+3)
(+2 to Str and Cha from Racial bonuses)
Defenses
AC: 20 (10+8 from Plate Armor+ 2 from shield bonus)
Fortitude Defense: 15 (10+Str mod+1 from paladin)
Reflex Defense: 14 (10+Dex mod+ 1 from paladin, +2 from shield bonus)
Will Defense: 14 (10+Cha mod+1 from paladin)

Hit Points: 32 (5 extra included from Toughness feat)
Bloodied: 16
Healing Surge HP Healed: 7 (1/4 max HPs + Con mod)
Healing Surges/Day: 11

Equipment
Plate Armor: Armor Bonus + 8, Check – 2, Speed – 1, Weight 50 lb.
Longsword: +3 to attack, 1d8 dmg, Weight: 4lb, Heavy Blade, Versatile
Heavy Shield: Shield Bonus +2, Check – 2, Weight 15 lb.
Standard Adventurer’s Kit: Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, a Belt Pouch, 2 Sunrods, 10 days worth of Trail Rations, 50 ft. of Hempen Rope, a Waterskin
Lantern: Weight 2 lb.

Money: 18 gold

Skills
Religion (Int)+4
• Represents academic study
• Make a Religion check to remember a useful but of religious knowledge or to recognize a religion-related clue. (See “Knowledge Checks,” pg 180)
• Monster Knowledge: Immortal or undead. Can make a Religion check to identify a creature that has the immortal origin (a creature of the Astral sea) or the undead keyword. (See Monster Knowledge Checks,” pg 180)
Heal (Wis)+6 Standard action
• First Aid: Make a Heal check to to administer first aid. Standard action. DC varies depending on the task you’re attempting. Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her Second Wind (pg 291) without the character having to spend an action. The character doesn’t gain the defense bonuses normally granted by Second Wind. Stabilize the Dying: Make a DC 15 Heal check to stabilize an adjacent dying character. If you succeed, the character can stop making death saving throws until he or she takes damage. The character’s current hit point total doesn’t change as a result of being stabilized. Grant a Saving Throw: Make a DC 15 Heal check. If you succeed, an adjacent ally can immediately make a saving throw, or the ally gets a +2 bonus to a saving throw at the end of his or her next turn.
• Treat Disease: Part of the diseased character’s extended rest. You must attend to the character periodically throughout the extended rest, and you make your Heal check when the rest ends. *Your Heal check result determines the disease’s effects if the result is higher than the diseased character’s Endurance check result.
Intimidate (Cha)+10 (+2 racial) Standard action in combat or part of a skill challenge
• Can be used in combat encounters or as part of skill challenges that require a number of successes.
• Checks are made vs. the target’s Will Defense or a DC set by the DM.
• Opposed Check: Intimidate vs. Will (see table for modifiers to your target’s defense). If you can’t speak a language your target understands, you take a -5 penalty to your check. If you attempt to intimidate multiple enemies at once, make a separate Intimidate check against each enemy’s Will Defense. Each target must be able to see and hear you.
• Success: You force a bloodied target to surrender, get a target to reveal secrets against its will, or cow a target into taking some other action.
• Failure: If you attempted to intimidate the target during combat, you can’t try again against that target during this encounter.
• Target Becomes Hostile: Using Intimidate usually makes a target hostile toward you, even if you don’t succeed on the check.
• Enemy is….Hostile (Will Defense mod +10), Unfriendly (Will Defense mod +5)
Endurance (Con)+6 Armor check penalty No action required
• Make and Endurance check to stave off ill effects and to push yourself beyond normal physical limits. Holding your breath long periods of time, forestall the debilitating effects of hunger and thirst, and swim or tread water for extended periods. Some environmental hazards-including extreme temperatures, violent weather, and diseases-require you to make an Endurance check to resist and delay debilitating effects. Chap. 3 of DM guide describes these kinds of rules.
• DC: See the table on pg 185 PH.
• Success: You endure a particular situation.
• Failure: You can’t try again until circumstances change or a certain amount of time has elapsed.
(-2 to all Str, Con, Dex based skill checks while wearing plate armor and another +2 when heavy shield is equipped)
(Remember to add ½ character lvl to skill checks, rounded down)

Prayers
Encounter Powers:
Dragon Breath Dragonborn Racial Power
As you open your mouth with a roar, the deadly power of your draconic kin blasts forth to engulf your foes.

Encounter ✦ Lightning
Minor Action Close blast 3
Targets: All creatures in area

Attack: Strength + 2 vs. Reflex

Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d6 + Constitution modifier
damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 +
Constitution modifier damage at 21st level.

Special: When you create your character, choose Strength,
Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability score you use
when making attack rolls with this power. You also choose
the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s
life and do not change the power’s other effects.
Channel Divinity: Divine Strength Paladin Feature
Channel Divinity: Divine Strength Paladin Feature
You petition your deity for the divine strength to lay low your
enemies.

Encounter ✦ Divine
Minor Action Personal

Effect: Apply your Strength modifier as extra damage on
your next attack this turn.

Channel Divinity: Divine Mettle Paladin Featurevinity: Divine Mettle Paladin Feature
Your unswerving faith in your deity empowers a nearby creature
to resist a debilitating affliction.

Encounter ✦ Divine
Minor Action Close burst 10
Target: One creature in burst

Effect: The target makes a saving throw with a bonus equal
to your Charisma modifier.

Fearsome Smite Paladin Attack 1Fearsome Smite Paladin Attack 1
When you strike a foe with your weapon, the force of the blow
causes him to shudder and second-guess his tactics.

Encounter ✦ Divine, Fear, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. AC

Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier damage. Until the end of
your next turn, the target takes a penalty to attack rolls
equal to your Wisdom modifier.

At Will Powers
Divine Challenge Paladin Feature
Divine Challenge Paladin Feature
You boldly confront a nearby enemy, searing it with divine light if
it ignores your challenge.

At-Will ✦ Divine, Radiant
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: One creature in burst

Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until
you use this power against another target, or if you fail
to engage the target (see below). A creature can be subject
to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a
mark that was already in place.

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack
rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target.
Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma
modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include
you as a target before the start of your next turn.

The damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th
level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged
or challenge a different target. To engage the
target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent
to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn,
the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge
on your next turn.

You can use divine challenge once per turn.

Special: Even though this ability is called a challenge, it
doesn’t rely on the intelligence or language ability of the
target. It’s a magical compulsion that affects the creature’s
behavior, regardless of the creature’s nature. You can’t place
a divine challenge on a creature that is already affected by
your or another character’s divine challenge.
Lay on Hands Paladin Feature
Lay on Hands Paladin Feature
Your divine touch instantly heals wounds.

At-Will (Special) ✦ Divine, Healing

Special: You can use this power a number of times per day
equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), but only once
per round.

Minor Action Melee touch
Target: One creature

Effect: You spend a healing surge but regain no hit points.
Instead, the target regains hit points as if it had spent a
healing surge. You must have at least one healing surge
Enfeebling Strike Paladin Attack 1 Enfeebling Strike Paladin Attack 1
Your brutal weapon attack leaves your foe weakened.

At-Will ✦ Divine,Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier damage. If you marked the
target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of
your next turn.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Charisma modifier at 21st level.

Valiant Strike Paladin Attack 1Valiant Strike Paladin Attack 1
As you bring your weapon to bear, the odds against you add
strength to your attack.

At-Will ✦ Divine,Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength + 1 per enemy adjacent to you vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.
Daily Powers
On Pain of Death Paladin Attack 1On Pain of Death Paladin Attack 1
You invoke a prayer that wracks your foe with terrible pain and
causes further pain whenever he makes an attack.

Daily ✦ Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will

Hit: 3d8 + Charisma modifier damage. Once per round, the
target takes 1d8 damage after making any attacks on its
turn (save ends).
Miss: Half damage. Once per round, the target takes 1d4
damage after making any attacks on its turn (save ends)

Utility Powers

Feats
Toughness: Gain 5 additional HPs per tier.

This is a 1st level character! Good gawd. And they think 2e is complicated?!? Unbelievable.

[jeffx]

I was player in the Worldwide Game Day event on Saturday. I took my boss, who is a retired OOP player. I played a cleric and he played a rogue. I will say one thing for Hasbro, they spent a good little chunk of their marketing budget on Game Day. The players got to keep the miniature and the 20-sided dice (the worst rolling 20s I have ever seen). The DM got to keep everything else.

First thing to point out is that 4E doesn't make you a better DM. Bad DMs are still bad DMs. Unfortunately we had a very bad DM. So bad, I actually sent an e-mail to the Game Day folks saying they should put some criteria on who gets to DM. There was a riddle in the beginning of the game. Good ole 1E riddle kind of stuff. The problem? I found out about the riddle by reading online. Our DM totally skipped it. Which left us in a TPK situation later on. He was an adversarial DM. He had a him against the character approach. It actually ruined things for my boss and I.

Then on Sunday, after defending THAC0, I ran two encounters of 4E. I ran straight up combat encounters to get a handle on the rules. We used pre-generated characters. Some things of interest:

It was fun.
Miniatures (or some sort of counter) is mandatory. Well, not mandatory but you would be crazy not to.
It wasn't as complicated as it looks. The stat blocks include everything you need for each "action" being done. Not a lot of adding things up.
There are a few more things to track but not horribly so.
I never, pulled out the rule books. I never had to.
Is it video game like? No. It has more of a fantasy anime feeling.
There is a general "beefing up" of everything. Characters have more hit points and deal more damage and so do creatures.
I like that they changed the Wizard (magic system). I just don't like how they changed him...well not completely.
When I read Second Wind, I thought it was stupid and a wussification. Now I just think it is stupid. I think they could have accomplished something similar with a different mechanic.
Combat is STILL boring!

Is it better than 2E? No. Is it worst than 2E? No. It is different. A lot different. With 2E, I could play a fantasy anime feel game. With 4E, it looks like it will be hard to do the reverse.

Will I stop playing OOP games? Not in the foreseeable future. As long as I can find people to play 2E I will be there with DM hat on. Will I play 4E? Yup. I liked it enough that we are starting up a second campaign that I will be running.

BTW: I've played a time travel game in every edition of D&D I owned. Don't blame 4E for people have characters travel back in time.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

LMAO! Oh lord Minstrel, that stuff is so hysterically insane that I laughed to the point of almost puking!

"I fey step my ass out of the burning lava!"

ROTFLMAO!!

Ok, that's official. 4orons are worse than 3etards. 4E is pathetic beyond description. "Crap" doesn't cut it. It's designed to appeal to the idiot crowd of losers like we saw at Planet'Tard. Stupid, unimaginative people who just make up goofy, stupid shit on the fly and say "Wow, isn't that cool" not because it's actually cool, but because they think it's somehow praiseworthy to come up with such idiocy.

Any of them that claim this game is still D&D need to be beaten with a wiffle bat for a couple of days till they come to their senses.

And is it just me, or are some of those powers just retarded? Like this one:

Fearsome Smite Paladin Attack 1
When you strike a foe with your weapon, the force of the blow
causes him to shudder and second-guess his tactics.

LMAO!!

I swear to God, the people who wrote this edition are idiots! And that's being kind! What kind of dumb-ass 3rd grader wrote/invented that? I could write better stuff in 1st grade for Christ's sake!

Can you see it? The paladin/assassin/dragon 4oron Fearsome Smites the enemy troll, and the DM says (playing the troll):

"Oh man, that hurt! Now I have to wonder if it was a bad idea to attack you!"

ROTFLMAO!! This is a game for STUPID PEOPLE!!!

I think I have to do this. I have to find a 4E game, join up, and express my sadistic tendencies by tormenting the 4orons.

Halaster: "I use my half-dragon/half-demon, paladin/assassin/druid, fey- walking, lava resistant 1st level character to invoke his special attack form. It's called 'Bowel Loosening Fear Force' and it instills such horrible fear of me that it induces uncontrollable, instantaneous bowel movements in each and every figure adjacent to me in a parallel or perpendicular plane within 36 squares forming a heptagon, who does not make a DC 1,000 CON check."

4oron: "Wha...wha...what does that mean? Uncontrollable bowels?"

Halaster: "It means my big bad dragon/demon/paladin/druid/assassin character is so damned scary that he can make your character shit his pants in fear! And after you shit your pants, every figure adjacent to him and facing either parallel or perpendicular to your character must make a DC 500 CON check to withstand the awful odor coming from your soiled pants or flee in disgust."

4oron: "But...but won't that affect you as well?"

Halaster: "No. Not at all. I Break Wind and use that to enhance my Resistance to Smelling Shit and Being Disgusted By It feat and invoke a Second Passed Wind to catch my breath and restore the 356 hp I was missing. That will leave the 1st level cleric free to call upon his Divine Glorification feat and ascend to godhood so that he can rip open the side of the mountain, eradicate the horde of Great Wyrm red dragons living there, and put their hoard into his Oversized Bag of Holding that can fit the mountain itself. That way we won't have to bother counting or loading coins!"

Good lord, where will it end? Will 4.5E come with a bib for the drooling 'tards it attracts, and perhaps a pacifier to suck on?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Oh God, Varl, this one you posted is hysterical!

On Pain of Death Paladin Attack 1 - You invoke a prayer that wracks your foe with terrible pain and causes further pain whenever he makes an attack.

ROTFLMAO!!!

How stupid are these 4orons? I can just see this in play:

DM: "Ok, your paladin/assassin/dragon uses his On Pain of Death Attack against the evil wizard! The wizard moans in pain."

Player: "So what happens?"

DM: "Well...ummm...he's in pain! Yeah! It hurts really, really bad!"

Player: "Yeah, but like, does it make him lose concentration and flub his spellcasting or something? Does it take off some hit points? Does it make him flee in terror?"

DM: "Well...er...no. It doesn't really do anything. He's still casting spells in an effort to kill you. But hey! That distorted look on his face as he waves his arms to cast a spell at you, caused by the intense pain traveling from his head to his ass, is quite something! His entire face is scrunched up from the pain."

Player: "Priceless! I love this feat!"

DM: "Ok, his fireball hits you for 456hp of damage. Every figure perpendicular to you on a flat plane within 46 squares arranged in a tesseract formation must make a DC432 Spell check."



It's a stupid game, designed by stupid people, aimed at stupid people. Period. But it is indeed fun to laugh at the absurdity and stupidity!

[McDeath]

It isn't even near as deadly as old Mentzer or Moldvay Basic D&D. Recall the module B5 Horro on the Hill (I think that's the name) where down deep in the dungeon beneath the ruined monestary there are rope bridges going across some crevasses of lava. The kobolds would wait and attempt to hit players crossing the rope bridges to knock them into the lava. As I recall (I'd have to look it up), anyone that fell in was utterly destroyed. Gone, zip-boom-ba, hasta-la-bye-bye!

Sheesh and Good Grief to 4e.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

That's because in AD&D we had something called "risks", and those were all taken out in 3E and 4E.

[radwizard]

4orons are deploying!

Gotta hand it to you Varl, I thought 3tards was pretty funny, but that above just takes the damn cake man!!!! ROTFFLMAO!!!!!

[Varl]

Now we have to think of one for 5e, cause you know it'll be out 6 months from now.

My vote is for Vile. Think about it.

[radwizard]

My vote is for Vile. Think about it.

Must think hard.........

[Algolei]

5lings.

5erts?

5estites!

5agra?

5-byes??

hmmm....

[Sangalor]

I don't like to poach comments from other sites but there was a discussion of 4th ed combat on CK which bears reading. It took a party of 5 1st level characters 1+hours to kill 6 Kobolds (and 2 of the party were knocked unconscious!) Track it down for a laugh

[McDeath]

Delta force kobolds led by Chuck Norris Kobold?

[Varl]

And now it looks like WotC is turtling into their protective copyright shells with this latest version of their GSL. I love it. What clearer indication of a company that doesn't know what the fuck it's doing than to completely alienate, not only long time supportive fans like us (and even 3e'ers), but let's alienate every other company out there that used to be able to create D&D content under the OGL that pretty much can't under the GSL unless they ask WotC first! The arrogance and backpedalling is disgusting and deplorable. The outcry so far that I've read towards the GSL is deafening to everyone's ears except WotC's.

But really, how much can WotC expect to hear and even care when your head firmly buried deeply in the sand, you have an enormous turtle shell on your back, and you create crap?

To quote Dr. Evil: "Somebody get me the stick!"

WotC: "Eeee! Eeee! Eeee!"

[Blackmote]

They already have an errata page for 4E.

sad, really. Especially since from what I can garner, much of the errata is causing the game to 'break' while in play.

This new game they call Dungeons & Dragons was simply not ready for publication.