Let's get some discussion going!

[Doirche]

On the 26 pages of replies there is mention by some that the Tiefling for 4th ed (or at least the one in the cartoon video interview) was influenced by some infernal being in WoW. Having never played WoW, I just don't know. In WoW I guess players can be Undead, Tauren (a minotaur type), Trolls, Orcs, various Elves, Human, Infernal, and other crud. I guess the dev's of 4th ed thought they just as well mimic that from the get go.

Be glad you never played WoW, stay away from WoW, avoid WoW like the plague.......... Arrrrghhhhh.!!!!!!!

That is of course considering you like to get sucked up into a FRPG that eats days out of your lifespan that would normally be taken up by family activities and other things that make you happy and content.

[McDeath]

Too rich for me and to much of a connection that is needed. I have dialup and no extra cash for expensive luxuries. I was addicted to a free multiplayer online RPG called EUO(Egg's Ultima Online). Spend hours and hours and day on end playing that (just frigging grinding or crafting stupid stuff like thousands of fishing poles, and other tools and crud). I even have a guild hall I made and became a Game Moderator with powers to ban, jail, etc other players (I was asked by the developer). Hell, he even got me an offline version so I could help develope maps and ideas. Perhaps the only reason I quite was because his programming became incompatible with my win98 os (computer would/will lock up, blue screen of death, reboot computer, or boot from game). So in the end I quit. I did make an appearance the other day and was greeted by the other addicts (they thought I died IRL). After my short appearance to see how everyone was doing my computer froze. I think it is telling me to stay FAR FAR away from online gaming.

[Shacia Amastacia]

On the 26 pages of replies there is mention by some that the Tiefling for 4th ed (or at least the one in the cartoon video interview) was influenced by some infernal being in WoW. Having never played WoW, I just don't know. In WoW I guess players can be Undead, Tauren (a minotaur type), Trolls, Orcs, various Elves, Human, Infernal, and other crud. I guess the dev's of 4th ed thought they just as well mimic that from the get go.

Wow, I knew 4e was going to be bad, what with the death of Mystra and magic, and all the changes to FR, but I never imagined that they'd go so far as to memic something from WOW. That's terrible!

[Evil Eli]

The fact that you HAVE to use Mini and Tabletop Encounters maps to play the new editon sucks and I like using minis.

Instead of a 30" Fireball you now have 5x5 Square fireball. WTF?

I have been reading about the new 4e for months now. I can honestly say I have no plans to buy any of it.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Shacia wrote:

Wow, I knew 4e was going to be bad, what with the death of Mystra and magic, and all the changes to FR, but I never imagined that they'd go so far as to memic something from WOW. That's terrible!

What?!?! They killed Mystra too! First Halaster, now Mystra?

Good lord, the more I hear about 4E, the more I know that I loathe it infinitely more than even 3E!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I wouldn't mind the projector set up, although it seems really technical to me, and hard to move around (say if you're gaming at someone else's house).

And I do like the physical feel of the battle maps, the pens drawing on it, etc. I don't think the projector would make it feel video-gamey at all, but it does seem a pretty huge leap as far as being able to even get one.

Varl, how much work is involved, and how much cash outlay for something like that?

[Varl]

I wouldn't mind the projector set up, although it seems really technical to me, and hard to move around (say if you're gaming at someone else's house).

I can't deny that. Heh.

Varl, how much work is involved, and how much cash outlay for something like that?

Well, the physical work involved is minimal. As long as you have enough room to mount a projector to the ceiling, it's not hard at all to set up. I used my cordless drill to mount it directly into the room trusses using hex head screws and some small lengths of chain. 3 minutes tops.

As far as the cash outlay goes, I won't lie and say it's cheap. Even the cheapest projector is from $4-600 usually, unless you get really lucky. The projector and a laptop, however, are your only real investments. The rest are installations and program choices for the laptop. Also, since in order to have two independent views of the map image (one for you the DM, and one for the players on the tabletop), you'll need an extra monitor in order to be able to run dual desktops. Vista and XP both support dual desktops.

So, in the end, if you have absolutely nothing invested or can be cheaply acquired, you'll need a laptop, projector, and second monitor, as well as whatever program you choose to run through the projector.

It's definitely not cheap, even though the laptop and second monitor can typically be picked up fairly cheap these days, the projector will be your greatest expense. Cost aside, however, anyone considering investing in a projector mapping system for their game should weigh these outlays against their typical yearly investment in RPG products for how expensive it actually may be. I know OOP fans aren't spending nearly as much as they used to, so that might not be an accurate gauge from which to judge whether to try something like this, but it's what I used. $1000 +/- to me is no worse than spending approximately $80 on miniatures a month on average, and I think we all know how expensive those little buggers can add up to be!

So, in the end, it's a matter of your interest in this style of mapping vs. how much over time you're willing to pay. For me, it was affordable over time considering the payoff of what it brings to the game. It also didn't hurt that the projector was virtually free, since it was a remnant left over from a failed project.

[Sangalor]

Hi

I am an old-school 2nd ed gamer from Australia - primary setting was FR and then Ravenloft and DL. My introduction to 2nd ed gaming was actually the original Ruins of Undermountain boxed set and that great Skullport article from Dragon 172 (I still have my many-times tape repaired copy!).

I got out back around 97 well before 3rd ed and I've only played 1 game with the 3.5 system since - I wasn't particularly impressed with the game mechanics esp. the over-powered PC's.

I'm still an avid FR fan but I've got to say the 4th ed changes are fundamentally altering that setting identity and the gaming system generally doesn't even seem to resemble what I recognise as D&D.

Alot of the decisions seem motivated by financial concerns rather than gamer interest or benefit - I don't want to start a controversy over this, but its my opinion.

Even so I'm looking forward to good conversation and fellowship with other grognards/old-timers etc here and reading/using what you guys are producing in terms of game content and product.

Cheers,

Sangalor

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Welcome Sangalor!

Wow, what a great introduction to 2E you had! Can there be a better way than starting with Undermountain? Not in my book!

No worry about starting a controversy here when criticizing 3E or 4E. I think you'll find that just about everyone here overall despises those systems and that's why we're such 1E/2E fans.

Be sure to read my rant about the "Emasculation of 3E" which I see I need to repost on the general forum since I never copied it over from the old forums. You'll get a kick out of it.

[jeffx]

Hell, I was browsing youtube the other day, and came across a d&d session where every single player had a laptop in front of them.

Want to take a minute to put my $0.02 on the use of computers at the gaming table. I have wanted to try it for a long time. There is a horror campaign (2nd Edition) that I have tried to run several times. It never works. Horror is the toughest feel to get right at the gaming table and getting characters to forget player knowledge is one thing but in a horror game it ruins the entire feel. The computers and an IM type program would remove all that.

Logistically computers at the gaming table are tough. First it is one more obstacle to gamers. When the only requirements to play are pencil, paper, dice, and imagination it is tough enough. It would be nearly impossible when you add a laptop into the mix. Second, huge player distraction. I dislike miniatures because they distract the player. Laptop would be unbearable. When I first considered doing this it was 1988 and it wasn't with laptops. It was using serial connections and a custom app. Before the ubiquitous Internet. Trying it today....failure.

As much as all us old school players don't want to hear it, computers are the inevitable future of role-playing games. WoTC is going to innovate new ground with their virtual tabletop product. All the other publishers are going to be doing their best to develop something similar. Granted virtual tabletop isn't new but the level of integration that will come with it is.

I have a lot more thoughts on computers at the gaming table and computers replacement of the gaming table. But for now i must go cheer on my minor league hockey team so they are not eliminated from the playoffs! (ECHL and Gwinnett Gladiators in case any one is wondering)

Jeff
PS: Remember, I am a 2E player and it is my preferred system.

[Algolei]

An even kewler idea would be a room with four projectors, one for each wall. You could put up an image of what the whole area looks like, with the players actually sitting at the table within the scene.

[McDeath]

For the future I will suggest Holodeck. Dungeon Masters will be required to wear red robes and talk cryptically.

[Varl]

An even kewler idea would be a room with four projectors, one for each wall. You could put up an image of what the whole area looks like, with the players actually sitting at the table within the scene.

Cost prohibitive, and frankly, it'd be a major pain in the ass to set up and coordinate. It's hard enough trying to get one projector to display and reveal accurately, much less four. The preproduction for such a system would rival movie studios too.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Algolei wrote:

An even kewler idea would be a room with four projectors, one for each wall. You could put up an image of what the whole area looks like, with the players actually sitting at the table within the scene.

Would you be offended if I said I love you?

Now that would be cooler than all hell, although I can imagine how hard that would be, what with bookshelves and pictures and other stuff on the walls obscuring things. But man, that would make for a fantastic gaming room!

[Algolei]

For the future I will suggest Holodeck. Dungeon Masters will be required to wear red robes and talk cryptically.

Within a week, someone would be chopped in half by Moriarty wielding a batleth.

Cost prohibitive, and frankly, it'd be a major pain in the ass to set up and coordinate. It's hard enough trying to get one projector to display and reveal accurately, much less four. The preproduction for such a system would rival movie studios too.

- It's a dream system!
- I was thinking more along the lines of a tri-colour movie projector.
- And stolen pictures.

Would you be offended if I said I love you?

No more than usual!

Now that would be cooler than all hell, although I can imagine how hard that would be, what with bookshelves and pictures and other stuff on the walls obscuring things. But man, that would make for a fantastic gaming room!

You mount them permanently on the ceiling, then plug them into your computer. Heck, remember the old games like Knight of Diamonds with their 10x10 panels forming the floor, walls, and ceiling? That wouldn't be hard to program!

One of the problems would be finding a room with four blank walls. You'd either need to be able to cover up the door(s) and window(s), or have one of those rooms with the door disguised as a wall.

Another problem would be having everyone with their back to one of the walls. They'd all want to look around, so everyone would have to crane their necks. But then I thought, well, we could turn the table 45 degrees so it's a diamond shape instead of a square.

And the third problem would be the players talking about directions. "We'll go that way." Then the DM has to figure out which way it is they're pointing. "Let's see, that way? Um, that's gotta be in this direction. Oops! No, ignore that dragon, that's the wrong room; you went south, not north! Hmm...."

But ooh, you could incorporate sound effects with each different room too. Doors could creak, dragons could roar, waterfalls could...fall water. And when someone casts a fireball you could light the table on fi--.... Orrrrrr maybe I'm going too far.

[McDeath]

I know this is out of the blue, but where the hell is everyone? I know I've been away but looking back at the last post is depressing. Any status on the project? What happened? Someone say something... er type something.

[Algolei]

I come by every day or three, but I have nothing to say that wouldn't sound like someone whining for sympathy.

I can't write! All I can do is respond to someone else. Sitting alone at a keyboard, I got nothin'. I have stacks of notes over 12 feet tall if I piled them all atop each other, but I can't seem to associate them with each other.

Hell, I can't even clean a single room. I end up piling books into different piles that apparently have some meaning to me when I begin, but just ending up being piles of random books. Which is actually pretty cool, when I look at it. Piles and piles of random books. Oh, but it has nothing to do with CLEANING THE ROOM!

And my laptop computer has over thirty files that consist of one opening line. That's what I end up with after thirty attempts to "get started writing." In fact, many of those thirty files are just duplicates of previous files, even though I was going to "take it a different direction this time."

Bah! I've overrated my brain. Maybe I can trade it in for a d20 and a d6, and just roll random consonants and vowels from now on.

1d20
1 - B
2 - C
3 - D
4 - F
5 - G
6 - H
7 - J
8 - K
9 - L
10-M
11- N
12- P
13- Q
14- R
15- S
16- T
17- V
18- W
19- X
20- Z

1d6
1 - A
2 - E
3 - I
4 - O
5 - U
6 - Y

(That's actually how I roll up random names sometimes. It sucks, naturally: Vunfufdim for instance.)

*sigh*

I remember when I had a computer with Basic on it. I wrote up a random name generator that was complicated and beautiful. You could tell it how "gruff" or "smooth" you wanted the names to be, and it would adjust the randomness of each letter appropriately.

I hate Microsoft sooooo much. . . .

[Hegel]

I also come back every other day searching for news of the project or some great discussion about AD&D, but the last months seemed a little bit slow. Anyway, someone start a discussion about the realms or a rant about 4th edition to get things going

[Algolei]

I know so little about 4E that my rants would be a waste of time.

[Varl]

I stop by every day, but haven't had much of an urge to post lately.

[Beowulf]

I try to stop in regularly but I've been busy. First off, I work full time and attend school full time, too (after spending my adult life as a chef I decided to return to school to study computer network administration). Plus, I've been seeing a really great girl for about five months and she gets most of the time I have left.

Geez, a gamer with a GF? I might get banned!

[Algolei]

Who broke the site yesterday! I tried to get on but I kept getting error messages.

[Doirche]

<--- didn't do it.

[Varl]

Where's Halaster?

[Doirche]

Where's Halaster?

Have no idea. I have not heard from him in weeks.