Undermountain5e

Post by **McDeath** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Saw this thread here: enworld waterdeepproducts
DnD wizards.com Waterdeep Dungeon of the Mad Mage
The YOUTUBE VID

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:28 pm

I blasted this over at PlanetADND. How in the Nine Hells are they going to detail 23 levels inside of 256 pages? Can't be done...well.

http://www.padnd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4003

Here's what I had to say over there:

___________________

Oh dear god.

They made him look like a damned undead zombie!

And why are they calling it "Dungeon of the Mad Mage" instead of "Undermountain", which is what the site is called?

And how are they going to detail 23 levels of Undermountain in just 256 pages? Assuming the entirety of the auxiliary material about the dungeon...any new spells, character write ups, magic items, history, background, etc...constitute a total of only 6 pages (good luck!), that leaves just 250 pages to detail 23 levels! That's only 11 pages per level! 8O

How the #$%@ do they think they're going to accomplish that? I mean, really? Let's compare that to both my work and some published works...

My write up for Level 7 alone for Ruins of Undermountain III: The Deadly Levels comes to 45 pages! That's for 43 rooms and 26 areas of interest, or a total of 69 rooms. That comes to 0.65 pages per room. I'm working at barely two thirds of a room per page, and they're going to detail an entire level in 11 pages?

The original Ruins of Undermountain took 85 pages to detail 70 core rooms and 55 areas of interest for a total of 125 rooms, or just about 1.5 rooms per page. Keep in mind - in that original boxed set, the areas of interest were tiny tidbits of info, not truly developed rooms, and took up a total of 13 pages to detail 55 areas of interest. That comes to 0.25 pages per room. If we take that out, the core rooms alone came to 70 rooms across 72 pages, or about a room per page.

Temple, Tower and Tomb was a neat mini-module with 3 adventures. The first adventure had 13 rooms described over the course of 9 pages, or about 1.4 rooms per page.

Can anyone tell me (in a sane, logical manner) how they are now proposing to detail an entire level in just 11 pages?

They're claiming to detail 23 levels in about 250 pages, so that comes out to about 11 rooms detailed per level. Total. WTF? 8O

Are they insane? An entire level with only 11 rooms detailed? The original Undermountain box set had 70 developed core rooms, or about 23 rooms per level (42 per level counting the areas of interest) and still, people whined about "empty maps" and "too many undeveloped areas". And that was with double to quadruple the number of rooms we can expect from this new travesty. I can hear the whining presciently. So one of two things has to happen, either of which are idiotic:

1. They'll need to make each level only about 11 - 20 rooms in size, total.

Back in the day, those of us who knew how to write games called that sort of level a mini sub-level.

2. They'll need to give just short, bare-bones descriptions of each room: "Room #9 has 2 bugbears guarding a chest containing 587 gp and 3 gems worth 50 gp each. The bugbears are armed with spears, short sword and wooden shields. Room #10 has a giant statue of a demon in the center surrounded by a pool of water. Anyone entering the water must save vs. poison or die in 1d4 rounds. The gems in the eyes of the statue are worth 100 gp each."

Now keep this in mind with my math above...

The original boxed set took 20 pages to cover the introduction, history, background and details alone, another 7 pages for NPCs detailing, and 14 pages for new spells, magic items, etc. That's 41 pages for the auxiliary stuff (anything not being a room description). Assuming they go with even half as much background detail, that means 20 pages of the 256 pages total will be used for background, leaving just 236 pages for room descriptions. That comes to just 10 pages per level. If they use the same number of pages to cover all that background stuff, new spells, etc, as the original, that leaves just 215 pages for room descriptions or only about 9 pages per level.

THIS. IS. STUPIDITY.

And I looked it up and saw a video by Chris Perkins (a WOTC/D&D developer) claiming that Halaster's original name was "Halather".

No, moron, it was not. Try RTFB (reading the ________ book). His original name was Hilather, not Halather. (Ruins of Undermountain, pg. 4). "Halather" sounds like "Halaster" pronounced by some guy with a bad lisp.

Buncha sad nonsense if you ask me.

And people wonder why I bash everything post-2E?

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:18 am

Here's what they did for 3E:

Totally pathetic. Notice that last one.

Halaster's Lair.

And it looks like a goddamned wine cellar beneath a small castle.

Post by **McDeath** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:24 pm

I hated the maps they made later on. Call me a stick in the mud but the original boxed set maps were best. Lost level wasn’t too bad but the pdf lacked quality (couldn’t find the paper product).

ROUII ... eh ok maps but style was different.

Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:42 pm

Yeah, I have a paper copy of The Lost Level and I liked that map. It still felt like Undermountain. I hated the RoUII maps, with that broken brick background. Ugh! And as if to add insult to injury by not including Trobriand in his own level, they made that cavern shaped like a scaladar. As hokey as it gets!

Post by **McDeath** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:27 pm

On all the versions I’d like to see the storyboards, recorded notes, and video/audio meetings to see what the hell they were thinking. I’m sure there were deadlines and progress reports that had to be filed.

I uh... have a source that might procure a digital copy upon its release. When it happens I’ll link it in the trade section. 2 hours a day on the computer is the most I do and it’s usually downloading something’s. From Power Metal Rock, digital computer games and hacks, PDFs, to other stuff. Course it’s hoarded and looked at later like some lazy chipmunk/hamster.

Currently, I’m listening to Stratovarius the band (yes I have all the albums). I did get the last of 5 finger death punch just recently. It had a few ok songs.

I also looked at some videos of the freakiest looking game I never heard of:
Agony

Agony System Requirements

Minimum Requirements:
CPU: Intel Core i3 3.2 GHz, AMD Phenom II X4 955 - 4 Core, 3.2 GHz
CPU Speed: Info
ram: 8 GB
os: Windows 7 / 8 / 10
Video Card: Radeon R9 280 or Nvidia GeForce GTX 660
Free Disk Space: 17 GB

Recommended Requirements:
CPU: Intel Core i5-8400, AMD Ryzen 5 1600
CPU Speed: Info
ram: 16 GB
os: Windows 7 / 8 /10
Video Card: Radeon RX 580 or Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Free Disk Space: 17 GB

Many say it sucks but there is a guy who really delves into the game. I guess some lighting, stealth, and certain mechanics need work. I can’t see why people bitch about the graphics. I play ascii, minesweeper, and 2d games and don’t have problems. Spoiled I think gamers are. The premise is you are nimrod from the Bible I guess. A lot of stuff taken from Dante inferno and other sources.

Maybe people are upset no Doom Marine. They react similar to many of us to Ruins of Undermountain later installments.

And then I hear of the rumors that Halaster has a harem on the lowest level

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! ...........

Post by **Mira** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:22 pm

I am interested to see what will become of this in 5E. Pretty sure Halaster will have lair actions and such to make it impossible for groups to be him specifically (and even if some DM allows it to happen, it won't be permanent)

If they REALLY wanted it to be ridiculously deadly, they could keep the Season 7 (Tomb of Annihilation) rules in there, no spells can bring someone back to life and any max hit point loss is permanent. But it will be in Season 8, so that part won't be there. Still, I expect many TPKs and people having to start with new characters because the Season 8 Adventure League rules are SO stupid.

Mira (Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it)

Post by **McDeath** » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:34 pm

I recently watched a video about Pathfinder 2 vs 5e D&D. Seems a lot more coverage in P2 for micro-management esp for what would be considered on the fly actions.

I never played with too many rule lawyers but there were timed. Greatest was improv groups.

Post by **Mira** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:29 am

Played with the Adventure League Season 8 rules at Tri-Con Fall last weekend. While the Season 8 adventures in Waterdeep are fun, the AL rules are just plain stupid.

(sarcasm)
Wah, math is too hard, we can't use XP, let's just use 'check points' instead. 4 per level up to level 5, then 8 per level after that. We'll be level 20 in months!
(/end sarcasm)

Yes, they really did that in AL, so now it doesn't even play like 5E, or any other version of D&D. And yes, I went there with a bunch of never played 1st level characters and came back with a 5th level, a 3rd level and a 2nd level just from the time spent there, though it was 4 days.

But the worst part is what they did to gold and treasure. Now you have to use 'treasure points', which go along with the 'check points'. That concept is a total disconnect for me. You fight a dragon and find it's hoard! What a haul! But wait, it's new AL rules. Too bad. All you can get is a couple of treasure points and some item 'unlocks'. That flametongue in the treasure? Nobody can keep it. Instead it's unlocked for purchase. IF you happen to have 24 treasure points that are high enough level. And yahoo, EVERYONE can have one if they can buy it.

Sorry about Fred the fighter, we can't resurrect him. The material component costs more gold than we'll ever see in our lifetime. Since we can't keep any of the gold the dragon collected either. Instead, we get a fixed amount of gold when we level, or we can exchange 1 treasure point for a measly 50 gold.
Sorry clerics, you'll never manage to get enough gold for those higher level spells. Sorry wizards, you'll never be able to copy much more than the minimum number of spells to your spellbooks. Should just be a sorcerer instead, same number of spells per day (slightly more actually) and the lack of flexibility is close to the same now.

Can you tell I don't like the new Adventure League rules?

I was never a fan of organized play to begin with, but 5E D&D is simple enough that I could deal with it to play with fun people. Because our table is the 'weird' one, I'll probably continue to play, though the treasure disconnect may drive me away in spite of the fun we usually have.

Post by **McDeath** » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Google slapped this ad at me:

New 'Dungeons & Dragons' Adventure Offers the Most Dangerous Goldfish Heist of All Time

Christian Hoffer
10/18/2018

A new Dungeons & Dragons compatible adventure puts players on the course for a suicide mission involving a goldfish and a mad beholder.

Last month, Dungeons & Dragons published Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, a new adventure for low level adventurers looking to build renown and fortune in the famous City of Splendors. During the course of Dragon Heist, players cross one of four powerful villains that are looking to claim a massive hidden treasure hoard for themselves. One of these villains is the Xanathar, a beholder that runs the most powerful criminal syndicate in Waterdeep.

Xanathar is one of the most famous beholders in the game, as befitting for a monster that somehow took control of a huge criminal enterprise. The beholder was previously featured in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and provided a running commentary about all the new rules options found in the game. But while Xanathar lords over a massive network of thieves, criminals, and unscrupulous mages, he's still a beholder...which means he's xenophobic, paranoid, and considers everyone and everything to be a potential threat.

Xanathar only cares for one thing - his pet goldfish Sylgar. A running joke in adventures that involve Xanathar is that his criminal syndicate continuously replaces Sylgar with a new goldfish whenever it dies and that Sylgar might be the beholder's one true weakness.

If players run afoul of Xanathar, their only resort might be to steal Xanathar's goldfish and hold it hostage...which is where "A Tail of Two Fishies" comes in. The mini-adventure, written by Y. Michael Zhang and Richard Gejji, is available on DMs Guild and assumes that a party from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist actually wants to attempt the impossible and steal a mad beholder's pet goldfish for themselves.

According to a description of the adventure, players can expect to encounter "a talking goldfish, a table-flipping bugbear, a gnome with ichthyophobia, robot beholders, a disco dance floor, a giant slot machine, a book titled 'Wizardry for Dummies,' and a chance to steal from a laundry list of magical artifacts out of Xanathar's personal treasury."

The adventure is compatible with the Waterdeep: Dragon Heist adventure and contains multiple ways to add the secondary goldfish heist into the main plot of Dragon Heist. Best of all, the adventure is meant to only last five hours, so players should be able to finish it in a session or two.

Dungeons & Dragons seems to enable silly storylines and plans, so DMs should probably plan for their parties to try to steal a goldfish at some point. And if they do, 'A Tail of Two Fishies' seems like the perfect way to give players plenty of laughs and an unforgettable heist.

Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:06 am

anathar only cares for one thing - his pet goldfish Sylgar. A running joke in adventures that involve Xanathar is that his criminal syndicate continuously replaces Sylgar with a new goldfish whenever it dies and that Sylgar might be the beholder's one true weakness.

If players run afoul of Xanathar, their only resort might be to steal Xanathar's goldfish and hold it hostage...which is where "A Tail of Two Fishies" comes in. The mini-adventure, written by Y. Michael Zhang and Richard Gejji, is available on DMs Guild and assumes that a party from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist actually wants to attempt the impossible and steal a mad beholder's pet goldfish for themselves.

According to a description of the adventure, players can expect to encounter "a talking goldfish, a table-flipping bugbear, a gnome with ichthyophobia, robot beholders, a disco dance floor, a giant slot machine, a book titled 'Wizardry for Dummies,' and a chance to steal from a laundry list of magical artifacts out of Xanathar's personal treasury."

Sigh.

Sounds to me like it was written by a millenial who has more time on his hands than he does experience in his history. I'm sure he thinks it's "cute", but to me it sounds stupid and silly.

Post by **McDeath** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:39 pm

It could be a generation Z or the in-between Zillenial. I hear the next gen is Alphas. Mmmmmm hmmmmmm alpha my foot.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:02 am

Alphas?

More like beta-cuck soy boys.

Post by **McDeath** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:32 pm

Uh wtf?!?
Wizards of the Coast Wants You to Photoshop Your Own Dungeons & Dragons Monster

Ok! Meet the creators of D&D? I wonder who that is???

Still, 5k to just play paper dolls?

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:51 am

Good lord, does 5E art suck!

Post by **McDeath** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:04 am

They never sent me adobe trial. Ah well.

Yes it does. Paperdolls... golly gee. :/

Post by **McDeath** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:40 am

Oh gee as it gets nearer to release this does does into my inbox:’

New 'Dungeons & Dragons' Adventure Brings Back All the Classic Undermountain Levels

Christian Hoffer
11/05/2018

The newest Dungeons & Dragons adventure will have plenty of danger and mayhem, some of which should have fans feeling a bit of nostalgia for earlier adventures.

Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage is D&D's newest adventure, a classic dungeon crawl in the depths of Undermountain, a megadungeon underneath the famous city of Waterdeep. The adventure will guide players from Level 5 to Level 20 and will likely culminate with a showdown with Halaster Blackcloak, the "Mad Mage" who created Undermountain thousands of years ago. While past adventures have explored different parts of Undermountain, Dungeon of the Mad Mage is the first time that the whole megadungeon has been mapped out and made available to players.

Undermountain is the setting for several classic D&D adventures and features plenty of strange and iconic levels, different areas of the dungeon featuring their own dangers and themes. And it seems that most of those levels have survived into the present day, at least according to a recent list of levels posted to the Roll20 virtual tabletop service.

Undermountain will have 23 different levels plus the city of Skullport, which was built in one of the upper layers of the dungeon. Iconic areas such as Wyllowwood, Maddgoth's Castle, Arcturiadoom, and the Obstacle Course are all returning for a new generation of players to explore.

A few of these areas were already the settings for past adventures. For instance, Maddgoth's Castle is a miniaturized castle in the middle of Undermountain was the focus of a 1996 adventure. Maddgoth's Castle was famous for how it turned mundane threats like bats or rats into terrifying monsters for players to vanquish. Meanwhile, Trobriand's Graveyard is a scrap heap home to numerous constructs rejected by their creator, who was one of Halaster's ex-apprentices.

Other iconic areas that will appear in Dungeon of the Mad Mage include Arcturiadoom, the realm of another one of Halaster's ex-apprentices who transformed herself into an undead pile of worms, and the Crystal Labryinth, in which Halaster keeps some of his most prized possessions.

You can check out the full list of levels here, but be warned that there are spoilers.

Dungeon of the Mad Mage hits hobby game stores this Friday, November 9th, and will be available for wider release on November 16th. You can pre-order it for 40% off on Amazon now.

Uh huh. Like it’d be just that easy and he’s going to sit like a turd in a toilet waiting to get killed. Even though 5e has been out a bit I really don’t understand its rules all that much. Some say Pathfinder 2 does or will do a better job. From what I’ve seen how products are broken up it makes me want to go back to basic Moldvay. I forget younger is the generation and they like end game. I tend to view Halaster akin to an immortal god like Tarjan is to Bardstale.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:32 am

As expected, they turned Undermountain into a freaking mess.

The newest Dungeons & Dragons adventure will have plenty of danger and mayhem, some of which should have fans feeling a bit of nostalgia for earlier adventures.

Yeah, nostalgia for back when the game was well written and made sense!

The adventure will guide players from Level 5 to Level 20 and will likely culminate with a showdown with Halaster Blackcloak, the "Mad Mage" who created Undermountain thousands of years ago. While past adventures have explored different parts of Undermountain, Dungeon of the Mad Mage is the first time that the whole megadungeon has been mapped out and made a

"Thousands of years ago"? Idiots. The original box set states:

"He suddenly left off all dealings with men over a thousand years ago, and came to Mount Waterdeep to make his home accompanied by seven apprentices".

- Ruins of Undermountain, pg. 4

That is a thousand years prior to the "current" date of 1357 DR given as the present in the box set. Some other sources list Undermountain being founded in 148 DR, with the "current" time being 1371 DR which would mean Halaster got to Undermountain 1,223 years ago. Waterdeep did not even exist until what...52 DR? In -1288 DR, the Melairkyn clan of dwarves first discovered mitrhil there, and began mining it. That was 2,645 years ago. The Drow were not driven out by Halaster until 211 DR. So where the hell are they getting this shit about Halaster creating Undermountain "thousands of years ago"? They make this shit up as they go along, with no regard for continuity. Sloppy, poor writers.

Undermountain will have 23 different levels plus the city of Skullport, which was built in one of the upper layers of the dungeon. Iconic areas such as Wyllowwood, Maddgoth's Castle, Arcturiadoom, and the Obstacle Course are all returning for a new generation of players to explore.

All listed on the wrong levels though!

Skullport is on Level 3, on the Sargauth level.

The Lost Level is not Level 6, it's an area in called the Deep Levels, which is below Level 6.

Muiral's Gauntlet cannot be on Level 10 because it's made clear that the apprentices lair on the levels between Level 4 and the Deep Levels.

Halaster's Lair is on Level 9, not Level 23.

What a mess!

Dungeon of the Mad Mage hits hobby game stores this Friday, November 9th, and will be available for wider release on November 16th. You can pre-order it for 40% off on Amazon now.

I'll skip that garbage, thank you very much.

McDeath wrote:

Uh huh. Like it’d be just that easy and he’s going to sit like a turd in a toilet waiting to get killed.

It's ridiculous to think of anyone being able to kill Halaster in Undermountain. He has powerful apprentices on each level to back him, unlimited access to monsters from across the multiverse, controls every aspect of the dungeon, and has clones released throughout the dungeon as needed. But you're right, they'll probably have him holed up on that stupid mini-level they once released as "The Mad Mage's Lair", when in fact the whole "ultimate level" they detailed was smaller than Skullport on Level 3.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:58 am

Again, 256 pages to detail 23 levels?

Even assuming that the entire book...every freaking page!... is dedicated to room descriptions, that comes to only 11 pages per level. The original took 41 pages to cover non-room descriptions (20 pages to cover the introduction, history, background and details alone, another 7 pages for NPCs detailing, and 14 pages for new spells, magic items, etc.). Assuming a similar amount of material, that leaves just 215 pages to detail 23 levels, or just 9 pages per level.

The original Ruins of Undermountain took 85 pages to detail 70 core rooms and 55 areas of interest for a total of 125 rooms, or just about 1.5 rooms per page. Keep in mind - in that original boxed set, the areas of interest were tiny tidbits of info, not truly developed rooms, and took up a total of 13 pages to detail 55 areas of interest. That comes to 0.25 pages per room. If we take that out, the core rooms alone came to 70 rooms across 72 pages, or about a room per page.

Original - 128 pages to cover 3 levels.
5E imitation - 256 pages to cover 23 levels.

So an additional 88 pages to cover an additional 20 levels? Double (2x) the number of pages to more than septuple (7x) the number of levels described? I don't think so.

Yeah, this thing is definitely going to be garbage.

Post by **McDeath** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:40 pm

Well, I’ve come to expect in every media that my nostalgia in movie, tv, comics, cartoons, gaming, electronic gaming and sports is all turned upside down and scattered to the four winds. Without gettjng into the politics (though that’s severely hobbling everything like a bunch of evil SJW fat crazy chicks from the film Misery) I have to say everything is becoming a mess. I well know for decades $$$ ran the ball court but now it’s just stupid.

In e-media I give you blizzards stupid idea to announce mobile Diablo at blizzcon. The die-hard fans are pissed. Other games are getting “enhanced editions” or reskins. The bards tale trilogy will probably be close to 1gig in size and it’s features aren’t all that improved. And for integrated video you need a core i5 to run. Pretty stupid.

Comics/movies/tv shows... yeah I’ve given up on all that. Too much TG, gay, social justice, and feminism in everything. Shit you got girls and women saying boobs are bad and the display of is sexist and is part of toxic masculinity to males viewing the female body as attractive. I guess science and sexual attraction is wrong.

Eh... I am really curious what crap they stuffed in there. I can guarantee the book isn’t the only product. Expect flip mats, map books, and more. And expect lots of repeated content.

Post by **Halaster Blackcloak** » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:39 am

McDeath wrote:

Well, I’ve come to expect in every media that my nostalgia in movie, tv, comics, cartoons, gaming, electronic gaming and sports is all turned upside down and scattered to the four winds. Without gettjng into the politics (though that’s severely hobbling everything like a bunch of evil SJW fat crazy chicks from the film Misery) I have to say everything is becoming a mess. I well know for decades $$$ ran the ball court but now it’s just stupid

I've always argued that everything has its Golden Age and then enters a slow decay period. Comics hit their peak in the 70s, then it went downhill. D&D hit its peak in the 70's and early 80s, then downhill. Same for TV, music, etc. When you start catering to the stupid masses, you get stupid products. It's how things work, and cannot be changed.

And now, entertainment is going to hell because one side runs Hollywood and the media and they're rabidly anti-decency and anti-American and have to inject their insane politics into everything...comics, movies, music...everything.

In e-media I give you blizzards stupid idea to announce mobile Diablo at blizzcon. The die-hard fans are pissed. Other games are getting “enhanced editions” or reskins. The bards tale trilogy will probably be close to 1gig in size and it’s features aren’t all that improved. And for integrated video you need a core i5 to run. Pretty stupid.

I always say...fanboys need to stop being mindless fanboy sycophants and become educated, discriminating consumers who demand better service. They're more like addicts these days...entertainment junkies.

Comics/movies/tv shows... yeah I’ve given up on all that. Too much TG, gay, social justice, and feminism in everything. Shit you got girls and women saying boobs are bad and the display of is sexist and is part of toxic masculinity to males viewing the female body as attractive. I guess science and sexual attraction is wrong.

I've noticed that too. Far too much left-wing politics in entertainment, forced down everyone's throat. It's why I don't bother with it. They can;t get my money in exchange for propaganda and depravity.

Eh... I am really curious what crap they stuffed in there. I can guarantee the book isn’t the only product. Expect flip mats, map books, and more. And expect lots of repeated content.

And stupid plots, childish drama and lots of simplistic room descriptions.

Post by **McDeath** » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:18 am

They’d have to be simplistic to fit in a small book. No way can they do that 3-6 page a room entries like 3rd edition.

I recall from quote:
4e Halls of Undermountain

You cannot run this adventure if you do not own the Monster Vault. No monster stats are provided in this book, except for the new monsters introduced.

Perhaps something similar for the 5e. I’ll admit I haven’t read much of the 5e and I should look at the Xanathar products since EOB was a favorite game and it was a villain I enjoyed encountering. I haven’t seen a q&a comparisonof the editions onthe subject of undermountain. Level design and arrangement would be interesting to follow. From 9 to now 23. That’s a lot of levels. I still believe there will be additional products that accompany the main.
Mmaybe I should check with forums or something to glean something

Post by **McDeath** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:58 pm

Why on earth did I quote myself.

Adobe never showed up as a download. I could have used $5k. Damnit.

Post by **slade88green** » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:59 am

I own all the undermountain products produced in one form or another. I purchased the 5e undermountain yesterday. From a fairly quick look through it I have seen small levels, no sub levels and pretty easy travel from one level to another. They did create areas leading off the maps they made and labeled them as passages to the expanded dungeon. The levels have an average of somewhere around 30 rooms with 4 room descriptions per page. I dont get all the undermountain products to run as is in whatever edition they made it for. I get them so I can take what I like and add it to undermountain as it should be. BTW, then made Halaster so he could die, but never permanently. He comes back after 1-10 days

One a different note, I have lost my copy of the forgotten realms atlas cd that had all the maps for the realms. One of those maps that I miss the most was undermountain level 5. Its the only place I have seen a map of level 5 that is the scale and scope of the other undermountain 2nd ed maps. Does anyone here have a copy of this product that can post a picture of the level 5 map?

Post by **McDeath** » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:28 pm

I’ll send you a pm.

Well, I’m betting it’s product 1 of many. A little disappointing it’s a gauntlet herd towards Halaster. Like you say, takes pieces here and there.