What’s really sad is WOTC 5e used to have a site that had more input and free side projects. Now it’s just http://dnd.wizards.com/products/catalog
A catalog and sales. Hitting community links to just a linkage to Twitter, twitch, Facebook, youtube, tumblr, instagram.
:/
WTH!?! I can pull up the archives from internet archive and see the old format. But just navigate that little menu on the top left and hit say monsters, factions, story. It’s the shortest descriptors as possible filled with ads and links to product. 5e is severely more primed to buy shit than anything. Hit the products and you see dice sets, screens, map packs etc EACH for every sort of adventure product they’ve come out. Ravnica is the next big project (sort of reminds me of kill 6 billion demons in a way).
I haven’t navigated WotC in ages, but from what I see now it looks like just a buying shop.
Undermountain5e
Moderators: Thorn Blackstone, Halaster Blackcloak
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
Well, game developers for PCs and stuff are getting lazy and saying fuck off to their fan bases. And failed Kickstarters or keeping the cash is a thing. Then there’s the Patreon hobos begging for money so they can live off their hobby.
Bad enough I walk the countryside and see trash on the streets. The other trash on the net and retail makes me retch.
I bought a remastered classic game from the 80s. I can’t play it as it takes a core i5 to play. Wtf! The game is mostly text, some number crunching and stills and a few animated pics. How the hell do I need a high end gfx card or core i5 just to run. Jesus! I was looking forward to that game. Bleh!
If I had more space I’d probably just scribble out random small maps. As Is I just end up going to my workout yurt I made under a tree and do arms or legs or something.
But I do have an impressive pdf file that’s growing. (And sort of organized)
Bad enough I walk the countryside and see trash on the streets. The other trash on the net and retail makes me retch.
I bought a remastered classic game from the 80s. I can’t play it as it takes a core i5 to play. Wtf! The game is mostly text, some number crunching and stills and a few animated pics. How the hell do I need a high end gfx card or core i5 just to run. Jesus! I was looking forward to that game. Bleh!
If I had more space I’d probably just scribble out random small maps. As Is I just end up going to my workout yurt I made under a tree and do arms or legs or something.
But I do have an impressive pdf file that’s growing. (And sort of organized)
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
I had to spank the shit out of JadedDM over at PlanetADND where we're discussing Undermountain 5E. Some people just don't get it. There's this aversion to passing judgment on things that puzzles the hell out of me.
So I looked over (a bit more closely) this travesty of a product. It's shit, pure and simple. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks this is a high quality, well done product is an idiot. It's obviously not. So many issues, where to begin?
First, on page 6 it says:
"Each dungeon level contains enough monster XP to ensure that characters who clear out the level can advance to the point where they're ready to take on the challenges of the next level down."
Undermountain is not a dungeon where you "clear out levels". See, the writers don't understand Undermountain or the concept of a mega-dungeon. It never gets "cleared out". Video game writers. It shows.
In the intro about Halaster and his apprentices, it reads like it was written by a 3rd grader. No mystery, no wit, nothing. No mention about how Halaster tested the dungeon's defenses against his apprentices while also testing them, or how one of them died during this phase of the development of Undermountain. Sad.
I have no idea what sort of stupid pills the writers were consuming when they wrote this tripe, but they destroyed the character of Arcturia. First, they turned her into a lich. That's original.
Then, compare what is written about Arcturia in the original Undermountain:
"Driven now to destroy or drive away all who defy her, Arcturia looks upon humans and demi-humans only as cattle to be "improved" by her work, and upon wizards as sources of new magic to augment her own. She will blast possible enemies first, and ask questions later...[snip]...she won't hesitate to kill those who threaten her life or her work."
Ruins of Undermountain, pg. 105.
...with what's written in this modern disaster piece concerning PCs who gain access to Halaster's level, where Arcturia dwells, it says:
"If the characters destroyed her phylactery on Level 14, Arcturia attacks them on sight. She has no beef with them otherwise."
WTF? Where to begin dissecting this insanity? The insane, cruel Arcturia who sees PCs as cattle "has no beef with them"? I can see it now...
"Hey guys! Welcome to the final Level of Undermountain. I'm Arcturia and I serve my beloved master here, Halaster. Feel free to look around and if you have any questions, just ask."
I mean, really? WTF? And why would she leave her phylactery laying around on a much less protected level (Level 14) than the level she dwells on (Level 23)? Her phylactery is protected by a single nalfeshnee demon. That's it?
And I hate to break the bad news to the idiot writers, but Muiral does not have a scorpion body. He has a spider body like a drider, but with a scorpion's tail. Maybe these fools didn't read the original.
They changed Trobriand into an iron golem. But he can still cast spells in iron golem form. Seriously? And while his spirit dwells in the iron golem, what is guarding his original body? Sit down folks! Not just one, but two scaladar. Don't worry about going overboard there Trobriand! I mean, sure, scaladars kick ass. But just 2 to protect his body? Sounds like a sloppy, careless mage to me!
Here is the worst part. They are detailing the "deadliest dungeon in the Realms". And what do you fight on Level 14? 2 HD hobgoblins. Really? Those are Level 1 monsters. And then we have Halaster's lair, Level 23 (in their mess of a product). The deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all dungeons. The lair of an insane and insanely powerful mage (one of the most powerful ever in the Realms). And what do we find for rooms on his level?
Room #1 - Magic frescoes showing Halaster "stretching and yawning, juggling rods, sweeping the floor with a broom, trying to escape a straight jacket, doing handstand, and shadowboxing."
Ummm...they invented straight jackets that long ago in the Realms? And is this room meant as a humorous room or something? No monsters, no mysteries, no threats. Nothing even interesting. Just silliness. I guess this is what passes for wit to the idiots who wrote this junk. Oh, and a gate to another room. And a statue of Halaster that, if destroyed says: "Is this the end of Halaster Blackcloak? Ha!I think not." Who wrote this crap? I'd hang myself live on Youtube if I had to sign my name to this crap.
Room #2 - A reverse gravity library. Oh, so creative and fun. Nothing else to note in this room. Boring. Literallty nothing happens here.
Room #3 - A bunch of preserved, talking heads in jars. No magic, no threat, no adventure, no excitement, no nothing. Another wasted room.
Room #4 - Six helmed horrors. These are 4 HD monsters by the way. Did they randomly roll for them? And the room description? Helmed horrors attack anyone who enters the room. I shit you not. Two tiny sentences, saying just that. Don't hurt yourself with the effort, morons!
Room #5 - Four invisible stalkers trapped behind an invisible wall force. Unless you breach the wall of force or destroy it, you never encounter these weak guardians.
Room #6 - Pillars that may do 4d10 lightning damage, save for half. And a stupid, obvious trap - a shield with a knocker that says "Knock first before entering" and if you use the attached knocker, it triggers a glyph of warding. 10d8 damage, save for half. And in case the PCs were stupid enough to trigger that trap, there's another one - a shield - that contains a pit fiend. And a side room with jars of rotted butter and glowworms. No, really.
Room #7 - A stupid, easy riddle:
"A crown festooned my dwarven brow.
I rest beneath the mountain now.
Who am I?"
Ummm...let me guess? Melair, the dwarf king of the Melairkynn clan? Why yes it is. Oh, and a teleport to another room.
Room #8 - Another boring teleportation pillar that only works if you find the 3 missing gems it needs to activate.
Room #9 - A mosaic of tiles depicting magic staffs that do nothing. And a shield that contains a trapped deva, who, if you free him, I suppose he'll help you kick the asses of all those tough 2 HD hobgoblins.
Room #10 - Seven flameskulls float about aimlessly in this boring room. And another shield on the wall that can trap people inside it. The writers really have a hard on for shields on the wall and boring, uneventful rooms, huh?
Room #11 - Trobriand's body lies here in statis, protected by not just one but two whole scaladars! Oh my, he's well protected!
Room #12 - Another boring, unprotected teleport. Yawn.
Room #13 - Trobriand dwells here, in his iron golem body. From which he can cast spells somehow. Ok.
Room #14 - Here we find a man with a rabbit's head named...Rabbithead!
He/it speaks no languages, but if he could I'm certain he would regale the PCs with stories of what a bitch Arcturia really is.
Room #15 - Another boring, unprotected teleport.
Room #16 - A broom closet. And inside is a broom. That is all. Seriously, this room has a short, one sentence description. Bowl me over with adventure and excitement.
Is anyone else noticing that something is missing from the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeons in all the Realms? Like maybe danger, or challenge, or excitement, or mysteries, or...I don't know...something fucking interesting? I've read cookbooks for ice cubes that are more fun and imaginative. Is the author severely mentally retarded, in a coma, or both? Because this writing sucks!
I don't have time to detail the rest of this pathetic crap tonight. I'll wrap up tomorrow. But if this is the best WOTC can produce for the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all, then they need to just close up shop. These writers suck. They're pathetic, talentless amateurs and even that is giving them too much credit. And anyone who thinks this is quality is as stupid as the writers are, I'm sorry to have to break it to you.
So I looked over (a bit more closely) this travesty of a product. It's shit, pure and simple. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks this is a high quality, well done product is an idiot. It's obviously not. So many issues, where to begin?
First, on page 6 it says:
"Each dungeon level contains enough monster XP to ensure that characters who clear out the level can advance to the point where they're ready to take on the challenges of the next level down."
Undermountain is not a dungeon where you "clear out levels". See, the writers don't understand Undermountain or the concept of a mega-dungeon. It never gets "cleared out". Video game writers. It shows.
In the intro about Halaster and his apprentices, it reads like it was written by a 3rd grader. No mystery, no wit, nothing. No mention about how Halaster tested the dungeon's defenses against his apprentices while also testing them, or how one of them died during this phase of the development of Undermountain. Sad.
I have no idea what sort of stupid pills the writers were consuming when they wrote this tripe, but they destroyed the character of Arcturia. First, they turned her into a lich. That's original.
Then, compare what is written about Arcturia in the original Undermountain:"Driven now to destroy or drive away all who defy her, Arcturia looks upon humans and demi-humans only as cattle to be "improved" by her work, and upon wizards as sources of new magic to augment her own. She will blast possible enemies first, and ask questions later...[snip]...she won't hesitate to kill those who threaten her life or her work."
Ruins of Undermountain, pg. 105.
...with what's written in this modern disaster piece concerning PCs who gain access to Halaster's level, where Arcturia dwells, it says:
"If the characters destroyed her phylactery on Level 14, Arcturia attacks them on sight. She has no beef with them otherwise."
WTF? Where to begin dissecting this insanity? The insane, cruel Arcturia who sees PCs as cattle "has no beef with them"? I can see it now...
"Hey guys! Welcome to the final Level of Undermountain. I'm Arcturia and I serve my beloved master here, Halaster. Feel free to look around and if you have any questions, just ask."
I mean, really? WTF? And why would she leave her phylactery laying around on a much less protected level (Level 14) than the level she dwells on (Level 23)? Her phylactery is protected by a single nalfeshnee demon. That's it?
And I hate to break the bad news to the idiot writers, but Muiral does not have a scorpion body. He has a spider body like a drider, but with a scorpion's tail. Maybe these fools didn't read the original.
They changed Trobriand into an iron golem. But he can still cast spells in iron golem form. Seriously?
And while his spirit dwells in the iron golem, what is guarding his original body? Sit down folks! Not just one, but two scaladar. Don't worry about going overboard there Trobriand! I mean, sure, scaladars kick ass. But just 2 to protect his body? Sounds like a sloppy, careless mage to me!Here is the worst part. They are detailing the "deadliest dungeon in the Realms". And what do you fight on Level 14? 2 HD hobgoblins. Really? Those are Level 1 monsters. And then we have Halaster's lair, Level 23 (in their mess of a product). The deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all dungeons. The lair of an insane and insanely powerful mage (one of the most powerful ever in the Realms). And what do we find for rooms on his level?
Room #1 - Magic frescoes showing Halaster "stretching and yawning, juggling rods, sweeping the floor with a broom, trying to escape a straight jacket, doing handstand, and shadowboxing."
Ummm...they invented straight jackets that long ago in the Realms? And is this room meant as a humorous room or something? No monsters, no mysteries, no threats. Nothing even interesting. Just silliness. I guess this is what passes for wit to the idiots who wrote this junk. Oh, and a gate to another room. And a statue of Halaster that, if destroyed says: "Is this the end of Halaster Blackcloak? Ha!I think not." Who wrote this crap? I'd hang myself live on Youtube if I had to sign my name to this crap.
Room #2 - A reverse gravity library. Oh, so creative and fun. Nothing else to note in this room. Boring. Literallty nothing happens here.
Room #3 - A bunch of preserved, talking heads in jars. No magic, no threat, no adventure, no excitement, no nothing. Another wasted room.
Room #4 - Six helmed horrors. These are 4 HD monsters by the way. Did they randomly roll for them? And the room description? Helmed horrors attack anyone who enters the room. I shit you not. Two tiny sentences, saying just that. Don't hurt yourself with the effort, morons!
Room #5 - Four invisible stalkers trapped behind an invisible wall force. Unless you breach the wall of force or destroy it, you never encounter these weak guardians.
Room #6 - Pillars that may do 4d10 lightning damage, save for half. And a stupid, obvious trap - a shield with a knocker that says "Knock first before entering" and if you use the attached knocker, it triggers a glyph of warding. 10d8 damage, save for half. And in case the PCs were stupid enough to trigger that trap, there's another one - a shield - that contains a pit fiend. And a side room with jars of rotted butter and glowworms. No, really.
Room #7 - A stupid, easy riddle:
"A crown festooned my dwarven brow.
I rest beneath the mountain now.
Who am I?"
Ummm...let me guess? Melair, the dwarf king of the Melairkynn clan? Why yes it is.
Oh, and a teleport to another room.Room #8 - Another boring teleportation pillar that only works if you find the 3 missing gems it needs to activate.
Room #9 - A mosaic of tiles depicting magic staffs that do nothing. And a shield that contains a trapped deva, who, if you free him, I suppose he'll help you kick the asses of all those tough 2 HD hobgoblins.
Room #10 - Seven flameskulls float about aimlessly in this boring room. And another shield on the wall that can trap people inside it. The writers really have a hard on for shields on the wall and boring, uneventful rooms, huh?
Room #11 - Trobriand's body lies here in statis, protected by not just one but two whole scaladars! Oh my, he's well protected!
Room #12 - Another boring, unprotected teleport. Yawn.
Room #13 - Trobriand dwells here, in his iron golem body. From which he can cast spells somehow. Ok.
Room #14 - Here we find a man with a rabbit's head named...Rabbithead!
He/it speaks no languages, but if he could I'm certain he would regale the PCs with stories of what a bitch Arcturia really is. Room #15 - Another boring, unprotected teleport.
Room #16 - A broom closet. And inside is a broom. That is all. Seriously, this room has a short, one sentence description. Bowl me over with adventure and excitement.
Is anyone else noticing that something is missing from the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeons in all the Realms? Like maybe danger, or challenge, or excitement, or mysteries, or...I don't know...something fucking interesting? I've read cookbooks for ice cubes that are more fun and imaginative. Is the author severely mentally retarded, in a coma, or both? Because this writing sucks!
I don't have time to detail the rest of this pathetic crap tonight. I'll wrap up tomorrow. But if this is the best WOTC can produce for the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all, then they need to just close up shop. These writers suck. They're pathetic, talentless amateurs and even that is giving them too much credit. And anyone who thinks this is quality is as stupid as the writers are, I'm sorry to have to break it to you.
The Back In Print Project - Where AD&D Lives Forever!
Different era to be sure. Even random dungeons we never cleared out levels. My first DM, my Pa, ran fantastic dungeon crawls and trap, tricks, teleported, running, evading and god the rooms or chambers were awesomely described.
Clearing.... yeah, different thought and a crafty GM isn’t going to make that easy. And I’m talking very simple dungeons. Hell, we never CLEARED caves of chaos and when it came to his cave of the unknown. God! He would have had fun with UM.
I try to read 5e, 4e, and 3e. They just don’t read easy. 3 is easiest but 4 is a nightmare. 5 I can’t really understand. I want to convert some ideas like the greater versions of giants... ie Fire titans, storm titans.
Clearing.... yeah, different thought and a crafty GM isn’t going to make that easy. And I’m talking very simple dungeons. Hell, we never CLEARED caves of chaos and when it came to his cave of the unknown. God! He would have had fun with UM.
I try to read 5e, 4e, and 3e. They just don’t read easy. 3 is easiest but 4 is a nightmare. 5 I can’t really understand. I want to convert some ideas like the greater versions of giants... ie Fire titans, storm titans.
Ah yeah the shield thing. Here’s a reposting of why? It deals with the Descent to Undermountain game. The manual was full of shield art. WTF with the shields?
Hal, I was going to post this on the BIP but it’s down atm. Anyways, the reason for all those rooms with shields could very well be inspiration from this CRPG:
Check the manual here:
Descent to Undermountain Manual
Archived Descent to Undermountain Manual
Btw, if anyone has some game maps to that CRPG let me know. I can’t find any.
The story:
Hal, I was going to post this on the BIP but it’s down atm. Anyways, the reason for all those rooms with shields could very well be inspiration from this CRPG:
Check the manual here:
Descent to Undermountain Manual
Archived Descent to Undermountain Manual
Btw, if anyone has some game maps to that CRPG let me know. I can’t find any.
The story:
From: Descent games.conThe Story
Undermountain is a dungeon labyrinth built by the mad wizard Halaster a millennium ago. Located directly beneath the City of Waterdeep, its shadowy halls, crypts, abandoned temples and natural caverns have always been a source of fear for those who make their homes in the city above.
Undermountain is a dungeon labyrinth built by the mad wizard Halaster a millennium ago. Located directly beneath the City of Waterdeep in the Forgotten Realms, its shadowy halls, crypts, abandoned temples and natural caverns have always been a source of fear for those who make their homes in the city above.
Undermountain is again making its presence felt in the city of Waterdeep. Citizens are disappearing without even a ransom note. Strange creatures have been sighted in the shadows of Waterdeep. And perhaps more frightening are the whispered tales of brave souls who have recently ventured into the depths of Undermountain; the ones that return alive tell of things half-seen that are more horrible than even Undermountain's usual abominations.
At the request of Waterdeep's most powerful mage, Khelben Blackstaff, the player is asked to descend into Undermountain to find the source of the recent troubles afflicting Waterdeep. As the player explores Undermountain, the cause of Waterdeep's problems slowly reveals itself...
Buried deep in the dungeon is the lost Flame Sword of Lolth, an artifact fashioned by Lolth the Spider Goddess. The Flame Sword has the power to open gateways to the abyss -- and bring the inhabitants of that foul place into the Forgotten Realms under the control of whomever possesses the Flame Sword. The command of an infinite army of horrific creatures is the reward for anyone who can find and tame the Flame Sword.
The spider-goddess Lolth fashioned the Flame Sword millennia ago. In the ancient wars between the surface elves and Lolth's worshippers, the Drow, Lolth used the Flame Sword's power to decimate the armies of the surface elves. The sword was not without a weakness, however; its power was controlled by means of a spider statue sacred to Lolth. This statue was stolen by an elven hero who shattered it and scattered its pieces throughout Undermountain. Without the statue to harness its power, the flame sword disappeared and Lolth lost the war against the surface elves.
Knowledge of the Flame Sword and its location have long disappeared from the surface civilizations, save in a few written accounts. But Lolth and her worshippers, the Dark Elves, have searched for the artifact ever since. Without the spider statue to control it, the Flame Sword's power is unharnessed -- it is capable of opening gates at random, bringing dangerous extra-dimensional creatures into Undermountain and placing Waterdeep in great danger.
In order to save Waterdeep, gather the eight pieces of the spider amulet used to control the Flame Sword, reassemble the spider amulet, then use it to subdue the Flame Sword itself. Standing in your path are Undermountain's horde of creatures, fiendish traps designed by the mad wizard Halaster, legions of Dark Elves, and the spider goddess Lolth herself.
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
Tbh maybe they should just be histories and generalities without the edition fluff rules. Insert your own rule set (gurps, WOD, palladium, x-edition rpg) andbe done with it. More and more rules is just annoying. It’s sad editions are used to sell products trying to be reimagined over and over.
I basically went moldvay—>mentzer—>1st ed Ad&D—>2nded Ad&D—>sandbox Ad&D heavily soaked in previous editions 2e and earlier. But hell there are a lot of RPGs out there and systems. God.. is just take a general write up and fill it in myself... just not for the outrageous inflated prices.
I basically went moldvay—>mentzer—>1st ed Ad&D—>2nded Ad&D—>sandbox Ad&D heavily soaked in previous editions 2e and earlier. But hell there are a lot of RPGs out there and systems. God.. is just take a general write up and fill it in myself... just not for the outrageous inflated prices.
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
McDeath wrote:
What really stood out to me though was how thoroughly and utterly shitty 5E Undermountain is. The deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all time, and what's on it? 2 HD monsters, lots of boring rooms written by a guy with an abnormal obsession with paintings and shields, and empty broom closets.
I'm sorry, but if I'm the editor and someone comes to me with crap like this - which is meant for the deadliest level of Undermountain - I'm ripping it up in his face, telling him the brutal truth (that he sucks as a writer) and handing him a mop to go start his new duties if he wants to remain employed. He cannot write. He cannot design games. End of story. If this was his best effort for the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon, then he doesn't have a clue.
I expected this thing to be bad. But I thought it would be bad mainly from a standpoint of being inaccurate to the original, having poorly designed traps, having stupid modern ideas of good monsters and battles, etc. Like hordes of gelatinous cube monks and pixie/dragon paladin/assassins and all that stupid 3E/4E/5E stuff. Instead, it was simply empty and boring. Just...dead. A lifeless, thrill-less, boring dungeon. I have literally written better and more exciting room descriptions for privies in my dungeons than anything I saw written for Halaster's level in 5E. I'm totally serious about that.
But then the greedy bastards wouldn't be able to force people to buy all the edition-specific rule books.Tbh maybe they should just be histories and generalities without the edition fluff rules. Insert your own rule set (gurps, WOD, palladium, x-edition rpg) andbe done with it.
What really stood out to me though was how thoroughly and utterly shitty 5E Undermountain is. The deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon of all time, and what's on it? 2 HD monsters, lots of boring rooms written by a guy with an abnormal obsession with paintings and shields, and empty broom closets.
I'm sorry, but if I'm the editor and someone comes to me with crap like this - which is meant for the deadliest level of Undermountain - I'm ripping it up in his face, telling him the brutal truth (that he sucks as a writer) and handing him a mop to go start his new duties if he wants to remain employed. He cannot write. He cannot design games. End of story. If this was his best effort for the deadliest level of the deadliest dungeon, then he doesn't have a clue.
I expected this thing to be bad. But I thought it would be bad mainly from a standpoint of being inaccurate to the original, having poorly designed traps, having stupid modern ideas of good monsters and battles, etc. Like hordes of gelatinous cube monks and pixie/dragon paladin/assassins and all that stupid 3E/4E/5E stuff. Instead, it was simply empty and boring. Just...dead. A lifeless, thrill-less, boring dungeon. I have literally written better and more exciting room descriptions for privies in my dungeons than anything I saw written for Halaster's level in 5E. I'm totally serious about that.
The Back In Print Project - Where AD&D Lives Forever!
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
I just looked at some initial notes I jotted down over the years - ideas for Level 9 (Halaster's level). One of the Areas of Interest - a generic, re-occurring type of tiny room similar to the teleports and curtains of darkness in the original Undermountain (and without giving too much info as a spoiler), deals with planar fluctuation fields that can gate those who cross it to other areas of the dungeon or to other planes, other settings, etc. in a random pattern. Sometimes they reverse and bring things from elsewhere into the dungeon. There's a lot more to it, but I don't want to give too much away and it's not even fully developed. But again, that's for a generic, repeating Area of Interest - not even a fully developed room! And it's far more exciting than anything I saw on Halaster's level in 5E.
And yes, there are privies in my Undermountain writings. And yes, they offer a lot more mystery, excitement, and fun than any of the rooms in 5E UM. When the damned toilets in my material offer more challenge, mystery and fun than any major room in Halaster's level in the 5E UM, you know that product has a problem!
And yes, there are privies in my Undermountain writings. And yes, they offer a lot more mystery, excitement, and fun than any of the rooms in 5E UM. When the damned toilets in my material offer more challenge, mystery and fun than any major room in Halaster's level in the 5E UM, you know that product has a problem!
The Back In Print Project - Where AD&D Lives Forever!
You just have to add the shields on the walls. Every dungeon decorator says they are a MUST HAVE! Perhaps they just used a random dungeon generator for room contents. Even a CRPG dungeons has creatures that are nastier and traps that are deadlier the further down you go.
The only stuff I really buy is hard to find stuff and it’s not usually TSR WOTC/HASBRO stuff. I’m still looking for a few pieces to Judges guild 3nd edition. The first Thieves guild boxed set and TG#2. Probably the most important of the bundle.
The only stuff I really buy is hard to find stuff and it’s not usually TSR WOTC/HASBRO stuff. I’m still looking for a few pieces to Judges guild 3nd edition. The first Thieves guild boxed set and TG#2. Probably the most important of the bundle.
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
McDeath wrote:
Even a generic, random room generator would literally have come up with much better rooms than the crap they printed. Even the cheapest, low-level, 10 page modules printed were better and more challenging. The mini-adventures in the booklets in the original FR Gray Box set were better. Everything I've ever seen was better.You just have to add the shields on the walls. Every dungeon decorator says they are a MUST HAVE! Perhaps they just used a random dungeon generator for room contents.
Judges Guild had some really good stuff!I’m still looking for a few pieces to Judges guild 3nd edition. The first Thieves guild boxed set and TG#2. Probably the most important of the bundle.
The Back In Print Project - Where AD&D Lives Forever!
I’m looking mostly for stuff to turn into PDFs that none have done before. You know those other catacombs quest books... someone beat me to pdf-ifying them. Bah! Well, I got hard copies and they did put up my Knight of the living dead pdf (minus the Undermountain info I was trying to tie in). That whole module should have been using regular AD&D rules. It has an interesting concept but it really seem UM, Halaster, etc seems absent from it. I need to look at copyright dates and check but I’m pretty sure you could find the printing timeline by authors and products and the Realms timeline with ease. I’m glad I wasn’t the only person wondering WTH?!?! was this Knight of the Living Dead book. Bugged me when I first saw it. I scoured the Magic Encyclopedia (2 book set that had a listing of TSr products to that point. That’s where I saw the catacombs quest listings. Not until I had internet could I do any research.
Turns out other people are selling UM 5e stuff
DMS guild Undermountain.
I think $10 might be steep. There’s another called Hoards of Halaster or something for $15 and other little small things for Waterdeep/UM. Seems like 3rd party is filling in blanks. I won’t be surprised if these are deadlier than the main product. I still shake my head at 5e mechanics. Just too alien and th hp saturation. Sheesh.
Turns out other people are selling UM 5e stuff
DMS guild Undermountain.
I think $10 might be steep. There’s another called Hoards of Halaster or something for $15 and other little small things for Waterdeep/UM. Seems like 3rd party is filling in blanks. I won’t be surprised if these are deadlier than the main product. I still shake my head at 5e mechanics. Just too alien and th hp saturation. Sheesh.
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
I took a look at the sample PDF. Looks pretty boring and low quality to me. Most of these modern writers are very poor writers and should go back to school. It reads like a 3rd grader wrote it...
"Between the mad wizard and his mad apprentices, no one can be entirely sure who is to blame for the construction of this alchemical laboratory, or who eventually left so much valuable knowledge and equipment to decay."
WTF??
"Between the mad wizard and his mad apprentices, no one can be entirely sure who is to blame for the construction of this alchemical laboratory, or who eventually left so much valuable knowledge and equipment to decay."
WTF??
The Back In Print Project - Where AD&D Lives Forever!
CRPGs are generally worse now if you can believe it. Comes down to “grinding.” I believe that’s the tabletop mentality as well. I could be wrong. I don’t read a lot of the modern material or play the CRPGs. Those that I do look at I have to shrug at. There’s a few nostalgic nods though.
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
In short... YES. Various sources i peruse show some interesting classic parody modules. Actually, the parody has ok stuff to add to the original ones. Just pick and choose. It isn’t generally corny crap like that awful castle grey hawk with 3-stooges and stupid stuff and some is downright bloody. I haven’t read it all. Pity I couldn’t find a bunch of KODT comics.
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Switch out Wilkins vs other coffee and say 2e vs later editions
Evil Kermit
Evil Kermit
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact:
-
Halaster Blackcloak
- Lord of Undermountain
- Posts: 4034
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am
- Location: Undermountain
- Contact: