Let's get some discussion going!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Well, with AD&DCampaigns.com gone, I guess it's up to us to get in touch with everyone from there and get some conversation going here. If anyone has email addresses from anyone from over there, please invite them here and LMK. I'm missing having good quality OOP discussion without all the OT crap at DF, the flame wars elsewhere, and the 3etards at the pseudo-AD&D sites.

[McDeath]

I take it no one wants to discuss these videos:

Tiefling & Gnome Interview
Beholder Interview

I'd mostly rather discuss the video itself and not what it represents edition-wise. When are you going to get interview Hal?

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Hmmm. Halaster interviewed on Youtube. That might be interesting.

I saw the interview with the lead designed for 4E. What a clown.

Talk about making something feel like a video game! They don't even refer to it as D&D anymore. It's 3.5 or 4.0. Like software upgrades. Garbage.

[Minstrel]

I haven't had a chance to listen to it with sound yet, but you can bet I will be when everyone else here goes to lunch.

The tiefling thing just sucks. A game with half-demon or -minotaur or whatever they are things just isn't the heroic fantasy I care to play.

I am reading through the quotes. Here are a few gems:

prismacolor28 (1 week ago)
It takes a special kind of person to play anything above 3rd edition.

Most people call it an "accountant"

ConradoThePirate (1 week ago)
I'll be boycotting D&D along with most of the real D&D players. Many comic shops here in CT are boycotting it as well.
ConradoThePirate (1 week ago)
I'm sticking with 3.5 and earlier.

Floppyshitz (1 month ago)
gay fuck 4E gnomes rock this is gay im not wasteing anymore money fuck this shit Wizards is slowly killing its self 4E looks gay with all the computer shit involved i just started playing D&D with 3E and now this shit comes im not wasteing money on 4E great job wizards way to fucking go you corprate shit heads...now preety soon the D&D shop that i go to to buy my shit will be packed with a bunch of 4E shit fuck this at least i have all the books i need im not spending any more

Oh man it just goes on and on for pages. And that was just scratching the surface.

These are the same people that went nuts over the splat books in 2e, then switched to 3<=X<4 e and really started the ball rolling on this silly power escalation and kewl-powerz trend and now they're surprised that it's gotten out of control.

Hell, I was browsing youtube the other day, and came across a d&d session where every single player had a laptop in front of them. On this website, I assume I don't need to say why that sucks. If that's where it's going, I'm glad I got out with 2e.

One further rant: what the hell is it with gnomes? Even 3.x people bitch that they're all turned into "Melkor the magnificent, inventor extraordinaire!", yet the rulebooks continue to embrace that. I always liked them as cousins to dwarves, maybe a little less serious and military, more in touch with natural forces, but still earthy and maybe a little greedy for metal/gems/etc.
EDIT: I see they're dropping gnomes in 4e. I wouldn't miss them, but was "Hellboy" really the only replacement they could come up with?

[Minstrel]

It's 3.5 or 4.0. Like software upgrades. Garbage.

It's EXACTLY like that. I read someone on enworld or somewhere else a while ago saying that they were going to wait for 4.5. They may as well just call it "D&D Vista". Wait for SP1.

[Doirche]

It's 3.5 or 4.0. Like software upgrades. Garbage.

It's EXACTLY like that. I read someone on enworld or somewhere else a while ago saying that they were going to wait for 4.5. They may as well just call it "D&D Vista". Wait for SP1.

LMFAO... that's SO true.

[McDeath]

It goes on for about 26 pages or more. I was mostly staring into space as I scrolled through. I did like the animated flick though. Maybe they should hire that group and just do cartoons. I started to talk to my cats like the gnome did to his badger:

"Who's my kitten? Who's my kitten? YOU ARE!!! Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow!"

And my cats didn't seem to mind at all. BTW, I just found out last night that a couple of them snore.

[Varl]

These are the same people that went nuts over the splat books in 2e, then switched to 3<=X<4 e and really started the ball rolling on this silly power escalation and kewl-powerz trend and now they're surprised that it's gotten out of control.

Serves them right. Those were the same assholes that chided me and other like me way back when we first mentioned how d20 was starting to resemble video gaming, but they were more knowledgeable than we were, and we were stupid and didn't know jack shit about it. Well, now they can sink and swim in it, you MFs...

Damn, that felt good. Catharsis!

Hell, I was browsing youtube the other day, and came across a d&d session where every single player had a laptop in front of them. On this website, I assume I don't need to say why that sucks. If that's where it's going, I'm glad I got out with 2e.

I won't go that far myself, but I have to admit that ever since I've went to projection mapping using my laptop, using messy pens, battlemats, and floorplans seems, well, archaic, and I don't have to scrub my hands clean of blue ink.

Plus, I find it truly amazing to use a program that allows me to reveal as much of the adventure location as the characters see as they see it. There's something very intriguing to me about that, almost as if it allows me to take the descriptions I would otherwise verbalize to the players (the standard way) and show them what they see and when they see it, not just what they imagine they see via my descriptions.

I honestly don't think I can ever go back to regular mapping. I could in a pinch if need be, but I know it'll feel awkward and slow.

WotC, if they truly wanted to bring the digital age to the players, should focus more on what the DMs and players would want in digital services or programs, and not focus so much on their ridiculous DI. Because I tell you with all honesty that if WotC created a program tomorrow that had amazing mapping qualities, such as a non-buggy reveal feature, realtime placement of environmental objects, the ability to obscure then reveal hidden objects such as secret doors, concealed doors, traps, and/or monsters, I'd be ALL over a program like that. BUT, they'd have to make it edition neutral, or at least allow for modifications to any game system.

They do that, and they'll get my money again, but I don't ever see them creating something such as this, not in any practical or useful way. They don't think like players and DMs, despite how many times they tell they are players and DMs...

One further rant: what the hell is it with gnomes?

I don't know. They're retards I guess. Gnomes are a fantasy staple. Period. Eradicating them from their core game makes as much sense as eradicating elves because their ears are too long.

The ubiquitous cry of the whiner "Well, no one likes to play gnomes!" or "I hate gnomes!" has convinced them they're right. Combine this with the hackneyed, boring, monotonous stereotype of gnomes and technology/comic relief, and it's no wonder people don't like gnomes. A friend of mine hates elves, and often refers to them as "fro-lickers". Heh. But that doesn't mean they're not a viable race for gaming.

I always liked them as cousins to dwarves, maybe a little less serious and military, more in touch with natural forces, but still earthy and maybe a little greedy for metal/gems/etc.

Same here, though my favorite role for them is the militaristic fighter gnomes because they're so infrequently thought of as a choice for the gnome.

EDIT: I see they're dropping gnomes in 4e. I wouldn't miss them, but was "Hellboy" really the only replacement they could come up with?

Hellboy?

[Zherbus]

I'm on it brotha!

[Minstrel]

RE: laptops - agreed, they can be a great DM tool. But you should have seen this table with 5 of them sitting there. I don't know how you'd even reach the chips around them without knocking over your drink.

RE: hellboy - I'm too lazy to post a picture, but google image search Hellboy. Marvel (or DC?) half-demon superhero guy.

Serves them right. Those were the same assholes that chided me and other like me way back when we first mentioned how d20 was starting to resemble video gaming, but they were more knowledgeable than we were, and we were stupid and didn't know jack shit about it. Well, now they can sink and swim in it, you MFs...

I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing in the office at that one. Damn straight.

[Zherbus]

Yeah, totally predictable. We knew the 3.x camp was going to start crying with 4e. Way to kill a franchise you blow-hards.

Keep on rocking with your half-goat, half-sprite blackguards with the feat to double-backflip-while-spinning-your-blades, just to gain an extra 3 attacks per round. Look where it got you. Soon you'll have to get a gamepad for those laptops to up-down-up-down-a-b-a-b-left-right-left-right-select-openapple-Q to perform them.

Me, I'll flip the PHB to page 101 to make a roll to see if I survive something idiotic I did. And I'll like it.

[Minstrel]

Varl, maybe you've posted it before, but can you remind us what you're using for projector mapping? Software/hardware/cost/any caveats you can think of would be really helpful. I'd love to give it a go if I ever had the time to make up some nice maps.

All I've ever seen is those crazy over-the-top "pimp my game room" ones, and I have the feeling that's way out of my league...hell I don't even have a game room...

[Varl]

RE: laptops - agreed, they can be a great DM tool. But you should have seen this table with 5 of them sitting there. I don't know how you'd even reach the chips around them without knocking over your drink.

Yeah, that'd be a bit much.

RE: hellboy - I'm too lazy to post a picture, but google image search Hellboy. Marvel (or DC?) half-demon superhero guy.

I know who he is, but which class/race were you referring to in d20?

[Varl]

Varl, maybe you've posted it before, but can you remind us what you're using for projector mapping? Software/hardware/cost/any caveats you can think of would be really helpful. I'd love to give it a go if I ever had the time to make up some nice maps.

Here's an example of a similar setup to what I use now:

http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tutorials/ ... rojection/

For the program, I'm using Battlegrounds. It's a modified version of Battlegrounds, however, because the main program was created for online, internet gaming with people all over the world, but I figured it could suffice for local game play with a few modifications, and it has. Still, it's buggy. It often reveals large blocks of areas on jpg or png maps without notice while using the reveal tool.

It works well enough to get by, but this is why I mentioned in one of my earlier posts about if a company or group of gamer/programmers sat down and developed a fully functional local program that people could download for use with their projector setups, I think they'd be onto something big. Maybe. I know I'd buy it in a cold minute.

Still, BG gets the job done for now until (if) something else or a newer version of BG comes out. I suppose one could use Photoshop as well, with plenty of masks, layers, and its reveal tool too if you're proficient with it, but I'm not as proficient in PS as I'd like to be.

[Minstrel]

RE: hellboy - I'm too lazy to post a picture, but google image search Hellboy. Marvel (or DC?) half-demon superhero guy.

I know who he is, but which class/race were you referring to in d20?

Nothing in d20. They're introducing "Tieflings" in 4.x. I believe they were a playable race in planescape, some sort of human "touched" with demonic blood or traits. One might have horns, another a forked tongue or tail, and I'm assuming, because it's >=3e, some sweet powerz. Sorry, "customization options to individualize your character".

[Minstrel]

I don't know what it is, but I absolutely love the idea of using one of those until I see the pictures, and then I get the feeling that it's taking something away from the game. Maybe I'm just too gun-shy after seeing the effects of video games on the hobby, and afraid it would give the game a video gamey feel.

I could definitely see using it to show layouts of towns, or area maps, and be able to write on them while leaving the nice paper copy mounted on the wall.

[Zherbus]

I was always happy with the wet-erase markers and pad, personally.

[Doirche]

blow-hards.

NICE

[Varl]

Nothing in d20. They're introducing "Tieflings" in 4.x. I believe they were a playable race in planescape, some sort of human "touched" with demonic blood or traits. One might have horns, another a forked tongue or tail, and I'm assuming, because it's >=3e, some sweet powerz. Sorry, "customization options to individualize your character".

Heh. Ah yes. The Tiefling. A planar Satyr. Whatevah. Heh.

[Minstrel]

Me, I'll flip the PHB to page 101 to make a roll to see if I survive something idiotic I did. And I'll like it.

Hell yeah.

[Zherbus]

Watched the videos...

Why the hell did I do that?

[Varl]

I don't know what it is, but I absolutely love the idea of using one of those until I see the pictures, and then I get the feeling that it's taking something away from the game. Maybe I'm just too gun-shy after seeing the effects of video games on the hobby, and afraid it would give the game a video gamey feel.

Well, I'm sure it's not for everyone. I just like the added dimension and elements it adds to the game. No more mapping is a big one for me. For one, I don't have nearly enough room in my tiny house for floorplan dispersion (as I've had dreams in the past of an entire garage or large room dedicated to nothing but gaming where I could lay out an entire dungeon complex using my plexiglas grids, but that's another story), which for me makes digital projection a no-brainer really. You don't have to worry about scale or room size when it's all photons.

Plus, there's the uncertain factor the players can literally see unfolding before their eyes. There's just something cool about the idea of reveal gaming, as I like to call it. Maps can come easily. I'm a member of the Dundjinni website and forums, as well as the CC3 mailng list, so maps are not a problem. The idea of being able to use my scanner to scan in any module's map for home tabletop use (if there is no digital version of it yet) or use an existing digital jpg or png of an adventure map is just too damn easy. No work is involved (unless you make your own), and even then, making your own is fun! No scaling is required, since BG scales map images to as close to 25mm scale as desired.

As for the actual video gamey feel, I can certainly understand that thought process, for I was firmly entrenched in that mindset myself for a very long time until I saw those pictures on that penpaperpixel website. I frankly couldn't care HOW video gamey something like that may have felt to me, it was freaking cool! My players agree too; they seem to love the idea, if the freakin bugs weren't always popping up and messing with the flow of the adventure.

I could definitely see using it to show layouts of towns, or area maps, and be able to write on them while leaving the nice paper copy mounted on the wall.

Uh huh! See? Now you're thinking! Imagine module adventures, old school modules like Undermountain or Tomb of Horrors, and having their maps digitally rendered onto the tabletop. To me, that's flat out cool.

[McDeath]

I'll admit that the beholder video was rather bleh. But I still like the other interview. Though, I really wonder why that gnome looks so friggin hideous. Looks like a hairy mix of Gollum, and Stitch (from Disney's Lilo & Stitch). He just had to talk about treasure. Now his Mum is going to have to attend a funeral. That's one tough badger though. I guess I'm just easily amused.

[Shacia Amastacia]

They're introducing "Tieflings" in 4.x. I believe they were a playable race in planescape, some sort of human "touched" with demonic blood or traits. One might have horns, another a forked tongue or tail, and I'm assuming, because it's >=3e, some sweet powerz. Sorry, "customization options to individualize your character".

The Tieflings and the Asimar were playable in any setting. The Tieflings have demon in their bloodline somewhere, and don't necessairly have horns or other such markings. Asimar had celestial bloodlines. They were the two sides on a coin, so I don't understand why one was chosen over the other. I would think, given the Tieflings leanings toward evil, they would have picked the Asimar.

[McDeath]

On the 26 pages of replies there is mention by some that the Tiefling for 4th ed (or at least the one in the cartoon video interview) was influenced by some infernal being in WoW. Having never played WoW, I just don't know. In WoW I guess players can be Undead, Tauren (a minotaur type), Trolls, Orcs, various Elves, Human, Infernal, and other crud. I guess the dev's of 4th ed thought they just as well mimic that from the get go.