Level Draining Undead - Revisited
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- Halaster Blackcloak
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Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Old topic, new thoughts!
So I'm going to try running another Zoom AD&D game again with a group of old friends I've known from grade school. We'd stopped playing for awhile because of attendance issues and what not, but that seems fixed. And with Halloween season coming (I refer to Oct. 1st thru 31st as Halloween "season"), I had an idea of incorporating vampires into the game with inspiration from the old Hammer Horror film Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires (titled The Seven Brothers Meet Dracula in the USA and Seven Kung Fu Brothers and Their Sister Kick Dracula's Ass by an irreverent friend of mine ).
The problem is level drains. The players are mature enough not to have problems with level drains. These guys don't even like resurrections. You die, they wanna roll up a new character. Old school guy! But the problem is the logistics of it. I've never liked the work involved. By the book, a drain from a vampire drops you two levels (except that xp-wise you are only drained 1.5 levels). For example if you're drained from 5th level to 3rd level, you're not at starting p for 3rd level. You're drained to xp at half-way between 3rd and 4th level - see PHB pg. 104). I guess that part is irrelevant. The point is, you drop from 5th to 3rd level. So now you have to adjust things like thaco, hp, spell selection, certain special abilities, etc. It's a lot of tinkering with stats and numbers and slows the game down as everyone has to re-calculate their hp, thaco, and check off things they can no longer do. For spellcasters it's a nightmare because you not only lose access to certain numbers of spells, but also the number of spells you can cast per spell level. It's a ton of fucking tedious, slow, administrative work that grinds the game to a halt.
So I'm trying to figure out an easier (more efficient) way to run this without watering down level drain. At a tabletop game where we're trying a long term ongoing campaign where the PCs are concerned with story and character development over advancement, this isn't an issue - we'd just use level drain BTB. But this is a campaign we're not taking too seriously, just a fun go-out-and-adventure sorta game.
I want to keep it potent, so I'm trying to figure out a system for it. I was thinking of having each level drain (for each level) take off 20% of current hit points. So for a ghoul it would take off 10% of hit points but a vampire on one hit would take off 40% of current hit points. Sure, the 3rd hit kills the character, but they're all 6th level, so 3 hits using the BTB rules kills them as well. Not really any more deadly than going BTB. I was also considering just adding a +2 penalty to thaco and damage per hit (for a vampire - it would be a +1 penalty for say a ghoul).
So looking at a generic 6th level fighter (I'll ignore any STR or CON bonuses to make this easier), he'll have a THACO 15 and an average of 33 hp. The first hit of the vampire would drain 40% (13 hp rounded up) of his original 33 hp, leaving him with 20 hp and a THACO of 17. On the next hit, he loses 13 hp (20% of the original 33 hp) leaving him with 13 hp and a THACO of 19. A third hit would take off another 13 hp, which kills him.
I think that system would work fine and be simple enough for everyone to use and it makes vampires still a really tough threat. I'm also considering a long term CON deduction or perhaps it would be easier to simply make it where magical healing does not work on hp lost to level drain - those hp have to be healed naturally through rest. That might be easier than a CON deduction.
What I'm having trouble with is how to handle spell loss. That's a fucking can of worms. A simple method would be to lose access to spells of a certain level with each touch. So for example, 6th level wizards get access to 3rd level spells. Therefore, the first touch of the vampire would remove their ability to cast 3rd level spells, the next touch removes their ability to cast 2nd level spells, and the third touch kills them anyway, so losing 1st level spells is moot. Using the BTB rules, a character may still be able to cast spells of each level, but not as many of them, which complicates the matter. There are a lot of methods to determine which they lose (they lose random spells, they lose spells picked by the DM, they lose spells most often or least often used, etc). But regardless of how that is determined, it's a fucking hassle. So I'm thinking simply losing an entire level of spells with each drain makes it very simple and also very potent.
I've also thought about making each hit of the vampire drain 1 level instead of 2, but giving them 2 attacks per round. I'm not sure if that's better, worse, or no different than just keeping it at 2 levels drained and only 1 attack per round. I was thinking that doing so would make ALL level drains equal, except that some monsters (like vampires) can attack twice per round. Granted, each drain is less potent, but they could drain 2 different characters per round. I wonder how that would play out? The idea just popped into my head as I was writing this. What do you guys think?
So I'm going to try running another Zoom AD&D game again with a group of old friends I've known from grade school. We'd stopped playing for awhile because of attendance issues and what not, but that seems fixed. And with Halloween season coming (I refer to Oct. 1st thru 31st as Halloween "season"), I had an idea of incorporating vampires into the game with inspiration from the old Hammer Horror film Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires (titled The Seven Brothers Meet Dracula in the USA and Seven Kung Fu Brothers and Their Sister Kick Dracula's Ass by an irreverent friend of mine ).
The problem is level drains. The players are mature enough not to have problems with level drains. These guys don't even like resurrections. You die, they wanna roll up a new character. Old school guy! But the problem is the logistics of it. I've never liked the work involved. By the book, a drain from a vampire drops you two levels (except that xp-wise you are only drained 1.5 levels). For example if you're drained from 5th level to 3rd level, you're not at starting p for 3rd level. You're drained to xp at half-way between 3rd and 4th level - see PHB pg. 104). I guess that part is irrelevant. The point is, you drop from 5th to 3rd level. So now you have to adjust things like thaco, hp, spell selection, certain special abilities, etc. It's a lot of tinkering with stats and numbers and slows the game down as everyone has to re-calculate their hp, thaco, and check off things they can no longer do. For spellcasters it's a nightmare because you not only lose access to certain numbers of spells, but also the number of spells you can cast per spell level. It's a ton of fucking tedious, slow, administrative work that grinds the game to a halt.
So I'm trying to figure out an easier (more efficient) way to run this without watering down level drain. At a tabletop game where we're trying a long term ongoing campaign where the PCs are concerned with story and character development over advancement, this isn't an issue - we'd just use level drain BTB. But this is a campaign we're not taking too seriously, just a fun go-out-and-adventure sorta game.
I want to keep it potent, so I'm trying to figure out a system for it. I was thinking of having each level drain (for each level) take off 20% of current hit points. So for a ghoul it would take off 10% of hit points but a vampire on one hit would take off 40% of current hit points. Sure, the 3rd hit kills the character, but they're all 6th level, so 3 hits using the BTB rules kills them as well. Not really any more deadly than going BTB. I was also considering just adding a +2 penalty to thaco and damage per hit (for a vampire - it would be a +1 penalty for say a ghoul).
So looking at a generic 6th level fighter (I'll ignore any STR or CON bonuses to make this easier), he'll have a THACO 15 and an average of 33 hp. The first hit of the vampire would drain 40% (13 hp rounded up) of his original 33 hp, leaving him with 20 hp and a THACO of 17. On the next hit, he loses 13 hp (20% of the original 33 hp) leaving him with 13 hp and a THACO of 19. A third hit would take off another 13 hp, which kills him.
I think that system would work fine and be simple enough for everyone to use and it makes vampires still a really tough threat. I'm also considering a long term CON deduction or perhaps it would be easier to simply make it where magical healing does not work on hp lost to level drain - those hp have to be healed naturally through rest. That might be easier than a CON deduction.
What I'm having trouble with is how to handle spell loss. That's a fucking can of worms. A simple method would be to lose access to spells of a certain level with each touch. So for example, 6th level wizards get access to 3rd level spells. Therefore, the first touch of the vampire would remove their ability to cast 3rd level spells, the next touch removes their ability to cast 2nd level spells, and the third touch kills them anyway, so losing 1st level spells is moot. Using the BTB rules, a character may still be able to cast spells of each level, but not as many of them, which complicates the matter. There are a lot of methods to determine which they lose (they lose random spells, they lose spells picked by the DM, they lose spells most often or least often used, etc). But regardless of how that is determined, it's a fucking hassle. So I'm thinking simply losing an entire level of spells with each drain makes it very simple and also very potent.
I've also thought about making each hit of the vampire drain 1 level instead of 2, but giving them 2 attacks per round. I'm not sure if that's better, worse, or no different than just keeping it at 2 levels drained and only 1 attack per round. I was thinking that doing so would make ALL level drains equal, except that some monsters (like vampires) can attack twice per round. Granted, each drain is less potent, but they could drain 2 different characters per round. I wonder how that would play out? The idea just popped into my head as I was writing this. What do you guys think?
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Sounds like it might be fun.. Pity i don't game online.Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:19 pm So I'm going to try running another Zoom AD&D game again with a group of old friends I've known from grade school. We'd stopped playing for awhile because of attendance issues and what not, but that seems fixed. And with Halloween season coming (I refer to Oct. 1st thru 31st as Halloween "season"), I had an idea of incorporating vampires into the game with inspiration from the old Hammer Horror film Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires (titled The Seven Brothers Meet Dracula in the USA and Seven Kung Fu Brothers and Their Sister Kick Dracula's Ass by an irreverent friend of mine ).
I have always found charting out what they earned each level, is easiest for level loss.. Just refer to what they gained to see what they lose.Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:19 pmThe point is, you drop from 5th to 3rd level. So now you have to adjust things like thaco, hp, spell selection, certain special abilities, etc. It's a lot of tinkering with stats and numbers and slows the game down as everyone has to re-calculate their hp, thaco, and check off things they can no longer do. For spellcasters it's a nightmare because you not only lose access to certain numbers of spells, but also the number of spells you can cast per spell level. It's a ton of fucking tedious, slow, administrative work that grinds the game to a halt.
Is that loss permanent? OR will it 'heal' over time?Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:19 pm I want to keep it potent, so I'm trying to figure out a system for it. I was thinking of having each level drain (for each level) take off 20% of current hit points. So for a ghoul it would take off 10% of hit points but a vampire on one hit would take off 40% of current hit points. Sure, the 3rd hit kills the character, but they're all 6th level, so 3 hits using the BTB rules kills them as well. Not really any more deadly than going BTB. I was also considering just adding a +2 penalty to thaco and damage per hit (for a vampire - it would be a +1 penalty for say a ghoul).
That is an easy way to solve it.. How would you handle other things, like granted powers for priest?Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:19 pm What I'm having trouble with is how to handle spell loss. That's a fucking can of worms. A simple method would be to lose access to spells of a certain level with each touch. So for example, 6th level wizards get access to 3rd level spells. Therefore, the first touch of the vampire would remove their ability to cast 3rd level spells, the next touch removes their ability to cast 2nd level spells, and the third touch kills them anyway, so losing 1st level spells is moot. Using the BTB rules, a character may still be able to cast spells of each level, but not as many of them, which complicates the matter. There are a lot of methods to determine which they lose (they lose random spells, they lose spells picked by the DM, they lose spells most often or least often used, etc). But regardless of how that is determined, it's a fucking hassle. So I'm thinking simply losing an entire level of spells with each drain makes it very simple and also very potent.
One or two attacks, one or two levels.. ITs the same essentially, but one attack roll a round, is easier to do with, than two!Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:19 pm I've also thought about making each hit of the vampire drain 1 level instead of 2, but giving them 2 attacks per round. I'm not sure if that's better, worse, or no different than just keeping it at 2 levels drained and only 1 attack per round. I was thinking that doing so would make ALL level drains equal, except that some monsters (like vampires) can attack twice per round. Granted, each drain is less potent, but they could drain 2 different characters per round. I wonder how that would play out? The idea just popped into my head as I was writing this. What do you guys think?
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- Halaster Blackcloak
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Garhkal wrote:
A 6th level wizard gets (4) 1st level spells, (2) 2nd level spells and (2) 3rd level spells.
He gets drained to a 3rd level wizard.
A 3rd level wizard gets (4) 1st level spells and (1) 2nd level spells.
So it's easy that he loses the ability to cast his 3rd level spells, but which of his (2) 2nd level spells does he lose? Roll randomly? And at higher levels it gets worse. And what if his spell selection has changed since then?
I would probably do special abilities or granted powers for priests and such the same way.
Yeah, I'm not fond of online gaming, though everyone playing is so spread out (one lives out of state), so that's our only option. The game really is only properly played in person though. Everything else is a poor substitute.Sounds like it might be fun.. Pity i don't game online.
Yeah, I've seen that suggestion but it's still a hassle. I mean, I guess you could simply save character sheets from each level, so when say you're drained from 5th level to 3rd level, you simply whip out the 3rd level sheet. But there are still problems. For example, spell selection. The character may have spells currently memorized that he did not have memorized or perhaps did not even possess while at 3rd level. So what happens to those? And he also loses access to spell levels or the number of spells able to be memorized at each level changes. Ex...I have always found charting out what they earned each level, is easiest for level loss.. Just refer to what they gained to see what they lose.
A 6th level wizard gets (4) 1st level spells, (2) 2nd level spells and (2) 3rd level spells.
He gets drained to a 3rd level wizard.
A 3rd level wizard gets (4) 1st level spells and (1) 2nd level spells.
So it's easy that he loses the ability to cast his 3rd level spells, but which of his (2) 2nd level spells does he lose? Roll randomly? And at higher levels it gets worse. And what if his spell selection has changed since then?
I was thinking of going with the idea that the pure hit point loss restores at the natural healing rate of 1-3 hit points a day (depending on activity level) and cannot be healed using magic. The ability score loss? Hmmm. I wonder if it would be cool to keep the penalty in place until the character is fully healed? What do you think?Is that loss permanent? OR will it 'heal' over time?
The only bad thing about doing spells that way is that it doesn't match the level of the character. For example, a wizard of 6th level could survive 3 hits from the vampire before he was down to a few hit points, but he would lose all spellcasting ability. Not sure if that is balanced or too harsh. Again, what do you think? It might work, but I've never tried it.hat is an easy way to solve it.. How would you handle other things, like granted powers for priest?
I would probably do special abilities or granted powers for priests and such the same way.
Yeah, it's a tough call. With one attack each hit is more deadly, but with two attacks there's double the chance of hitting. Not sure which would work better. I'm not a fan of tinkering with the rules too much, unless there's a good reason. Not sure if that change would make it better, worse, or no difference ultimately.One or two attacks, one or two levels.. ITs the same essentially, but one attack roll a round, is easier to do with, than two!
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Sucks for me too.. All i see in the local area for gaming RPG wise, is shadowrunners OR 5e/path finder folks.Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:44 pm Yeah, I'm not fond of online gaming, though everyone playing is so spread out (one lives out of state), so that's our only option. The game really is only properly played in person though. Everything else is a poor substitute.
Well for mages it showed what they gained when they leveled up.. SO that six level guy who dropped to 3rd, you should easily see what thye lost.. For priests its easier to do as they still keep the same spell access.Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:44 pm Yeah, I've seen that suggestion but it's still a hassle. I mean, I guess you could simply save character sheets from each level, so when say you're drained from 5th level to 3rd level, you simply whip out the 3rd level sheet. But there are still problems. For example, spell selection. The character may have spells currently memorized that he did not have memorized or perhaps did not even possess while at 3rd level. So what happens to those? And he also loses access to spell levels or the number of spells able to be memorized at each level changes. Ex...
SO a 20pt vamp loss, can be 'cured' within 7 days (one week) essentially. Doesn't sound that scary to me. That's why i have never liked some of the alternates folks (especially those on DF) pander around, since most of those suggestions are 'easy' to come back from imo.Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:44 pm I was thinking of going with the idea that the pure hit point loss restores at the natural healing rate of 1-3 hit points a day (depending on activity level) and cannot be healed using magic. The ability score loss? Hmmm. I wonder if it would be cool to keep the penalty in place until the character is fully healed? What do you think?
ITs the age old question (especially from someone used to playing battle tech).Halaster Blackcloak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:44 pm Yeah, it's a tough call. With one attack each hit is more deadly, but with two attacks there's double the chance of hitting. Not sure which would work better. I'm not a fan of tinkering with the rules too much, unless there's a good reason. Not sure if that change would make it better, worse, or no difference ultimately.
Do i take one BIG shot, or lots of smaller ones.. IE do i shoot only ONE LRM-20 or four LRM-5's. YEA with the LRM5's i stand a BETTER chance of having at least one hit, but its pidly damage.
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
It sucks that this has become moot because the idiots I grew up with can't seem to commit to a day to play. I swear, it's like these guys never grew out of 4th grade mentally. I ended up canceling the entire campaign. Shame. I had great ideas for it, very inspired. These guys are just slackers. That's how they go thru life. I told them to study the rules and even wrote up a great cheat sheet for them. I told them to study their character sheets and write down any questions they have. Nope. No one bothers. They make excuses and whine that they're so busy it's hard. I tell them to get a fucking life. Then one guy canceled because he assumed I had no material written when I clearly explained to him and repeated not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, but at least eight times during the course of 2-3 discussions that I had the entire story in my head, could run it from my head and would have it written in any case because the next Zoom meet was just a practice session for them to become re-familiarized with their characters, the rules, etc. Then another guy can't make it for 2 weeks.
I told them, fuck it. Love you guys, we've been friends since grade school, but now everyone's in their 50s and still can't function. I'm done. So I canceled the campaign. None of them can run a game without me because none of them know how anything works. Aside from some online games last year, the last time they played was like 35+ years ago. It's like they want to run a chess tournament but none of them know how a knight or a rook moves and they can't be bothered to learn the rules. So, no game.
Man, this is a tough holiday season. Trying to enjoy Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas - this is the magical time of year I love so much. And people are just fucking up left and right. The old gang fucked up the campaign, an old friend of mine flaked out on doing our Youtube channel that would most likely have made lots of money, another friend is screwing me over with a layoff at the one job I work so now I have a massive existential crisis and I'm gonna have to destroy his life. I mean, seriously fucking turn his life into a living hell. It's a karmic imperative, I have no choice. The guy who was supposed to be fixing the website is fucking AWOL for months now - no response, no communication.
Yeah, time to start destroying peoples' lives. I guess I gotta make an example out of one of them and everyone else will remember who and what I am and what I'm capable of. They just assume because we're friends that they're immune to revenge. Unreal.
I told them, fuck it. Love you guys, we've been friends since grade school, but now everyone's in their 50s and still can't function. I'm done. So I canceled the campaign. None of them can run a game without me because none of them know how anything works. Aside from some online games last year, the last time they played was like 35+ years ago. It's like they want to run a chess tournament but none of them know how a knight or a rook moves and they can't be bothered to learn the rules. So, no game.
Man, this is a tough holiday season. Trying to enjoy Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas - this is the magical time of year I love so much. And people are just fucking up left and right. The old gang fucked up the campaign, an old friend of mine flaked out on doing our Youtube channel that would most likely have made lots of money, another friend is screwing me over with a layoff at the one job I work so now I have a massive existential crisis and I'm gonna have to destroy his life. I mean, seriously fucking turn his life into a living hell. It's a karmic imperative, I have no choice. The guy who was supposed to be fixing the website is fucking AWOL for months now - no response, no communication.
Yeah, time to start destroying peoples' lives. I guess I gotta make an example out of one of them and everyone else will remember who and what I am and what I'm capable of. They just assume because we're friends that they're immune to revenge. Unreal.
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
I've met shitheads like that, who can NEVER BE bothered to do a single thing other than show up to play. YET EXPECT Everyone else to force feed them everything....
IN NO way would i consider jugheads like that friends.
AND IF I had my way, fucknuts of that mentality, wouldn't HAVE a right to vote, as they're obviously TOO FUCKING LAZY!
IN NO way would i consider jugheads like that friends.
AND IF I had my way, fucknuts of that mentality, wouldn't HAVE a right to vote, as they're obviously TOO FUCKING LAZY!
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
True. These guys all went to school with my younger brother, so they're all a few years younger. But we've known each other a long time. Actually only one of them would technically be called "friend", as we hung out more than he and my brother did. But he's the only one who takes it seriously and shows up and doesn't fuck up. The rest? Just major fuck ups. It's like they never grew up. Two of them are fucked up because they're on antidepressants. They refuse to get off them, and it fucks up their brains.
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Then why do you still consider them friends??
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
They're not really "friends" as much as people I grew up knowing, but did hang out with. They're not bad people, really, just sorta fucked up. They can't commit to a gaming time and day and they're just lazy. I told them never again to ask me to DM for them.
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Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
Players really should make a more detailed record of their players. Now way back in oh 1990sh I finally had access to a dot-matrix printer and I started creating player sheets. I swear one was a record sheet for leveling (if not it wouldn't be hard to mock up).
This sheet even kept track of multi-class leveling and where each hp was gained. Losing levels wasn't so bad as not only was the hp recorded but the EXACT XP lost per drain. I had a little house rule somewhere that if they payed extra for blessing & sanctification in a church they had a chance to reroll their hp for that level and even results lower would just indicate getting their original back. On a polar opposite, if they were under a curse, stuck in the domains of dread they would likely get minimal hp back (balance). Normally a reroll. Notations, were made on the sheet and naturally the DM had a copy as well (no fudging). I encouraged keeping the max # spells cast per levels in the record sheet as well. At the time I used cantrips in 1e & Orisons for priests and had bonus spells for high intelligence just like priests. Yeah, not btb but w/e. I had tried mana/magic points before as well. Long before 3e or 5e I even used mana in conjunction with spells but soells cast through mana were 1/4 as effective and ate up mana fast. And there was a chance the taxing of this mana would affect their life and take hp damage (hell, I didn't even know dragon ball existed or ki from OA). I didn't use the mana system often. It was experimental and just more math. I primarily used it as testing and weighing what players liked.
I didn't want munchkin and OP crap but I did want something a little more complicated. The issue came with humanoid NPC spellcasters and such on my end. I just flat out ruled monsters didn't use mana. Some of the idea was a thought I had on the Towers of High Sorcery in Krynn. Oh yeah, I fucked around with moon magic too. You can quickly get too much going before you then strip to basics.
Record keeping is something players & DM alike should practice.
This sheet even kept track of multi-class leveling and where each hp was gained. Losing levels wasn't so bad as not only was the hp recorded but the EXACT XP lost per drain. I had a little house rule somewhere that if they payed extra for blessing & sanctification in a church they had a chance to reroll their hp for that level and even results lower would just indicate getting their original back. On a polar opposite, if they were under a curse, stuck in the domains of dread they would likely get minimal hp back (balance). Normally a reroll. Notations, were made on the sheet and naturally the DM had a copy as well (no fudging). I encouraged keeping the max # spells cast per levels in the record sheet as well. At the time I used cantrips in 1e & Orisons for priests and had bonus spells for high intelligence just like priests. Yeah, not btb but w/e. I had tried mana/magic points before as well. Long before 3e or 5e I even used mana in conjunction with spells but soells cast through mana were 1/4 as effective and ate up mana fast. And there was a chance the taxing of this mana would affect their life and take hp damage (hell, I didn't even know dragon ball existed or ki from OA). I didn't use the mana system often. It was experimental and just more math. I primarily used it as testing and weighing what players liked.
I didn't want munchkin and OP crap but I did want something a little more complicated. The issue came with humanoid NPC spellcasters and such on my end. I just flat out ruled monsters didn't use mana. Some of the idea was a thought I had on the Towers of High Sorcery in Krynn. Oh yeah, I fucked around with moon magic too. You can quickly get too much going before you then strip to basics.
Record keeping is something players & DM alike should practice.
At the edge of madness, he will show no sadness
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Never broken, he'll be back for more
Proven under fire, over trench and wire
No fear of death, he's unshakeable
Forged for the war, he's unbreakable
Re: Level Draining Undead - Revisited
That's generally how i;ve seen folks do it, that like me, chart up when you level what hp you gained, what spell(s) you learned (if a mage), what WP/NWP you took etc.. SO when drained, it was easy to see what you'd lose.
I've seen some dms do it thus.McDeath wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 1:45 pm I had a little house rule somewhere that if they payed extra for blessing & sanctification in a church they had a chance to reroll their hp for that level and even results lower would just indicate getting their original back. On a polar opposite, if they were under a curse, stuck in the domains of dread they would likely get minimal hp back (balance).
A) IF you lose a level, then get it restored by a Restoration spell, you GAIN BACK the HP you lost. So if your fighter lost 4 (+con), then got a restoration, he'd gain back 4 (+con).
B) IF You lose a level, then restore it via adventuring, what you lost is NOT what you'd get back. Roll for the HP as if you leveled normally. BUT YOU gain the benefit in you don't NEED to train up for that level, like you would if just advancing normally.
SHOULD is the Operative word..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!