Undead Monsters

[Doirche]

Hey all.

Does anyone know if there is a complete or nearly complete list of 1ed and 2ed Undead monsters anywhere? I have not done a thorough search yet myself and just wanted to ask here first in case someone knew of one offhand.

Thanks in advance

[Doirche]

Here is what I came up with so far....

Apparition
Banshee
Beast (Undead)
Beholder (Undead)
Coffer Corpse
Crypt Thing
Death Knight
Dracolich
Ghost
Ghoul
Haunt
Huecuva
Lich
Demi-Lich
Mummy (Normal, Bog, Greater)
Poltergeist
Pseudo-Undead
Revenant
Shadow (Slow)
Shadowwrath
Sheet Phantom
Skeleton (Animal, Normal, Dust, Giant, Spike, Obsidian, Warrior)
Son of Kyuss
Spectral Minion
Spectral Scion
Spectre
Vampire
Wight
Wraith
Zombie (Juju, Monster, Mud, Yellow Musk)

[adidamps2]

are you looking strictly for a list of printed TSR undead monsters.

BTW would you concider a Beast of Chaos an Undead monster (fm pg 10, of the MC annual volume four


Alhoon (Illithilich) MCA3 pg 7
Arch-Shadow MCA2 pg 10
Banedead MCA3 pg9
Banelich MCA3 pg 10
Bat, Bonebat MCA3 pg 11
Cat, Crypt MCA2 pg 26
Chose One MCA3 pg 20
Curst MCA2 pg 32
Dog, Bog Hound MCA2 pg 42
Dread Warrior MCA3 pg 29
Ekimmu MCA2 pg 48
Ghost, Casura MCA2 pg 60
Ghost, Ker MCA2 pg 61
Ghul, Great MCA2 pg 62
Ghul-kin MCA2 pg 63
Lich, SUel MCA2 pg 79
Lurker, Shadow MCA2 pg 80
Kyuss, Son of MCA3 pg 69
Inquisitor MCA4 pg 51
Mummy, Creature MCA2 pg 89
Siren, Ravenloft MCA4 pg 72
Undead Dragon Slayer MCA3 pg 113
Vampire, Cerebral MCA4 pg88
Wraith-Spider MCA2 pg 114
Zhentarim Spirit MCA3 pg 119

MCA= Monstrous Compendium Annual #=Volume pg=page

Hope this helps

[Doirche]

are you looking strictly for a list of printed TSR undead monsters.

BTW would you concider a Beast of Chaos an Undead monster (fm pg 10, of the MC annual volume four


Alhoon (Illithilich) MCA3 pg 7
Arch-Shadow MCA2 pg 10
Banedead MCA3 pg9
Banelich MCA3 pg 10
Bat, Bonebat MCA3 pg 11
Cat, Crypt MCA2 pg 26
Chose One MCA3 pg 20
Curst MCA2 pg 32
Dog, Bog Hound MCA2 pg 42
Dread Warrior MCA3 pg 29
Ekimmu MCA2 pg 48
Ghost, Casura MCA2 pg 60
Ghost, Ker MCA2 pg 61
Ghul, Great MCA2 pg 62
Ghul-kin MCA2 pg 63
Lich, SUel MCA2 pg 79
Lurker, Shadow MCA2 pg 80
Kyuss, Son of MCA3 pg 69
Inquisitor MCA4 pg 51
Mummy, Creature MCA2 pg 89
Siren, Ravenloft MCA4 pg 72
Undead Dragon Slayer MCA3 pg 113
Vampire, Cerebral MCA4 pg88
Wraith-Spider MCA2 pg 114
Zhentarim Spirit MCA3 pg 119

MCA= Monstrous Compendium Annual #=Volume pg=page

Hope this helps

Thanks adidamps2!!!

That list is awesome. I actually am looking for a list of just 1st and 2nd ED undead monsters. They can come from anywhere really, not just TSR, as long as I have a PDF of it, which I am pretty sure I do...

Thanks again

[adidamps2]

No problem, I just quickly went through the MCA I have, but I still have several MC appendix I could check in and I have that 3 ring binder Monster Manual.

[Sangalor]

Don't forget there is a whole stack of undead monsters from the Ravenloft setting too eg. Kender Vampires etc!

[Halaster Blackcloak]

And the skuz from the FR MC1.

[Sangalor]

Here is what I came up with so far....

Zombie (Juju, Monster, Mud, Yellow Musk)

Just a quick question - is the Yellow Musk Creeper Zombie undead or plant?

[Doirche]

Here is what I came up with so far....

Zombie (Juju, Monster, Mud, Yellow Musk)

Just a quick question - is the Yellow Musk Creeper Zombie undead or plant?

The Yellow Musk Creeper and Yellow Musk Zombie are two seperate creatures. The zombie is the unfortunate victim of the musk creeper. While the Yellow Musk zombie is not a "true" undead in the fact that it cannot be turned, I still added it to my list because of the nature of the monster.

[Doirche]

Here is what I got out of Ravenloft...

Animal Ghost (Bear, Wild Boar, Wild Horse, Mountain Lion, Stag, Wolf)
Bastellus
Boneless
Bowlyn
Bussengeist
Corpse Candle
Familiar (Undead)
Geist
Ghoul Lord
Golem (Zombie)
Insectoid (Giant Ant, Giant Tick, Stag Beetle)
Jolly Roger
Lich (Defiler, Drow, Elemental, Psionic)
Mist Ferryman
Phantom Hound
Psionic Spirit
Radiant Spirit
Remnant (Aquatic)
Rushlight
Skeletal Hound
Skeleton (Archer, Strahd)
Spectral Hag
Strahd's Skeletal Steeds
Treant (Undead)
Undead Cloaker
Valpurgeist
Vampire (various)
Zombie (Cannibal, Desert, Fog, Cadaver, Strahd, Wolf)
Zombie Lord

[Sangalor]

Here is what I came up with so far....

Zombie (Juju, Monster, Mud, Yellow Musk)

Just a quick question - is the Yellow Musk Creeper Zombie undead or plant?

The Yellow Musk Creeper and Yellow Musk Zombie are two seperate creatures. The zombie is the unfortunate victim of the musk creeper. While the Yellow Musk zombie is not a "true" undead in the fact that it cannot be turned, I still added it to my list because of the nature of the monster.

Doirche

Not meaning to be disagreeable but isn't the nature of the undead determined by their relationship to the Negative Plane?
(At least that's how I always understood undead monsters).

[Doirche]

Just a quick question - is the Yellow Musk Creeper Zombie undead or plant?

The Yellow Musk Creeper and Yellow Musk Zombie are two seperate creatures. The zombie is the unfortunate victim of the musk creeper. While the Yellow Musk zombie is not a "true" undead in the fact that it cannot be turned, I still added it to my list because of the nature of the monster.

Doirche

Not meaning to be disagreeable but isn't the nature of the undead determined by their relationship to the Negative Plane?
(At least that's how I always understood undead monsters).

I'm not sure what you mean. If the monster description says "undead" or "can be turned" then it's undead.

[Mira]

Skeletons and Zombies are undead without any ties to the Negative Material Plane. The level draining undead have such ties, but there are undead that don't have them. (and they don't drain levels due to that)

Mira (When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty)

[McDeath]

I generally place undead in a few categories:

Undead
Pseudo-Undead
Undead-like Constructs

[Sangalor]

Skeletons and Zombies are undead without any ties to the Negative Material Plane. The level draining undead have such ties, but there are undead that don't have them. (and they don't drain levels due to that)

Mira (When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty)

I actually have to concede that I may have been well off the mark - I dug out the Manual of the Planes and noted that it suggests that even the level-draining undead may not have ties to both the Negative Plane and Prime Material.

I personally understood the undead to be related to the Negative Plane i.e. tapping the energy of the Negative Plane actually animated them - the greater the relationship, the stronger the powers of the undead being. This ecology works well for my campaign, but isn't official.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

I've always considered all undead to have been animated via the Negative Material Plane. Those with stronger links can produce more horrendous effects, ie aging by ghosts, level draining by vampires, mummy rot, etc.

It's the only way to make sense of the cleric's ability to turn undead (of any kind). If we remove the Negative Material Plane link from skeletons and zombies, then how are the clerics turning them?

I've always believed that clerics turn undead because they tap into holy power from their gods. Or perhaps the gods allow the cleric to tap into the Positive Material Plane in order to repel undead. In either case, the undead are getting power from the Negative Material Plane, and the cleric is countering that force.

If we remove the Negative Material Plane connection from skeletons and zombies, then why can clerics turn them? It can't be because they're evil, otherwise clerics would also be able to turn dragons, chimera, drow, etc.

If undead are animated by some force, and all other undead are animated by the Negative Material Plane, then what's animating skeletons and zombies?

[Sangalor]

I've always considered all undead to have been animated via the Negative Material Plane. Those with stronger links can produce more horrendous effects, ie aging by ghosts, level draining by vampires, mummy rot, etc.

It's the only way to make sense of the cleric's ability to turn undead (of any kind). If we remove the Negative Material Plane link from skeletons and zombies, then how are the clerics turning them?

I've always believed that clerics turn undead because they tap into holy power from their gods. Or perhaps the gods allow the cleric to tap into the Positive Material Plane in order to repel undead. In either case, the undead are getting power from the Negative Material Plane, and the cleric is countering that force.

If we remove the Negative Material Plane connection from skeletons and zombies, then why can clerics turn them? It can't be because they're evil, otherwise clerics would also be able to turn dragons, chimera, drow, etc.

If undead are animated by some force, and all other undead are animated by the Negative Material Plane, then what's animating skeletons and zombies?

This was the basis of my thinking also - i.e. how does Animate Dead (Clerical or Magical) work without tapping some power? - I always assumed it was power from the Negative Plane.

I also think the Turning is related to the god providing the cleric/paladin with access to tap power to combat that of the Negative Plane (possibly Postive Plane energy? - this would explain why you can have undead totally destroyed by powerful clerics) and Controlling undead is related to gods providing evil clerics with power to control Negative Plane energies.

Thoughts?

[McDeath]

There is the mummy anomaly; text in both 1st and 2nd ed states something about being tied to the Positive Plane. I think even the Van Ritchen's Guides talked of this.

[Mira]

I don't think it's necessarily the Negative Material Plane, but any extra planar connection. Maybe because I grew up with 1E, and demons and devils are turnable there. (and those have no connection to the Negative Material Plane). In the case of skeletons and zombies, part of the original soul is involved (again IMO) which is why it's an evil act to create them. That soul would be extra planar as well since it should be residing elsewhere, not be pulled back to inhabit it's former body. (and yes, I'm aware that is just my thoughts on how it works, I've gotten into a rather large discussion with Ubiquity before on Mortality about it )

The general rule seems to be that if it's a bad thing that involves something from outside the plane, it's turnable. (even though 1E allowed for turning paladins, I thought that might be going too far and disallowed that, it would make no sense to turn paladins and not clerics with that logic)

Mira (The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong)

[adidamps2]

I don't think it's necessarily the Negative Material Plane, but any extra planar connection. Maybe because I grew up with 1E, and demons and devils are turnable there. (and those have no connection to the Negative Material Plane).

The Guide to Hell , a 2nd edition supplement, has a Cleric turning table for this as well. but I believe you're right that the PHB does not have a turning table for Demons/devil in it.

[Sangalor]

I don't think it's necessarily the Negative Material Plane, but any extra planar connection. Maybe because I grew up with 1E, and demons and devils are turnable there. (and those have no connection to the Negative Material Plane). In the case of skeletons and zombies, part of the original soul is involved (again IMO) which is why it's an evil act to create them. That soul would be extra planar as well since it should be residing elsewhere, not be pulled back to inhabit it's former body. (and yes, I'm aware that is just my thoughts on how it works, I've gotten into a rather large discussion with Ubiquity before on Mortality about it )

The general rule seems to be that if it's a bad thing that involves something from outside the plane, it's turnable. (even though 1E allowed for turning paladins, I thought that might be going too far and disallowed that, it would make no sense to turn paladins and not clerics with that logic)

Mira (The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong)

Mira - I'm thinking that the turning of paladins/devils/demons etc was related to the idea that they were extremes on the scale of holy/unholy positions. Paladins could be driven off by evil clerics because of their particular repugnance to unholy/evil force. Clerics would be less influenced by this because they would usually fall into a more moderate position on that scale.


Incidentally - I am putting a little effort into compiling a table of undead with HD and source for 2nd ed resources. I'll get all the stuff in that I can and then start working my way through Dragon etc. I'll distribute it to anyone who is interested - just let me know. (It will take some time though!)

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Mira wrote:

I don't think it's necessarily the Negative Material Plane, but any extra planar connection. Maybe because I grew up with 1E, and demons and devils are turnable there.

A good point, which coincidentally brings up a strange discrepancy in the rules. If clerics can turn undead and devils/demons, why not dragons or orcs? If a cleric is countering the force of the Negative Material Plane, then he should not be able to turn demons or devils since they have no connection to the Negative Material Plane. If he's merely countering the force of evil, then he should be able to turn all evil creatures, ie dragons, orcs, etc.

In 2E, didn't they state somewhere that Tanar'ri and Baatezu (how I loathe those names!) are turnable as special undead? I'm not sure, but I remember always allowing it in either case.

In the case of skeletons and zombies, part of the original soul is involved (again IMO) which is why it's an evil act to create them. That soul would be extra planar as well since it should be residing elsewhere, not be pulled back to inhabit it's former body. (and yes, I'm aware that is just my thoughts on how it works, I've gotten into a rather large discussion with Ubiquity before on Mortality about it )

I'd definitely agree there. That's why undead are so horrifying and why it is such a terrible thing to become an undead creature. But again, more powerful undead such as vampires, ghosts, liches, etc retain their souls. I always looked at it being the case where undead are animated (ie brought to un-life) through the power of the Negatiev Material Plane. That's the "glue" that binds the dead body to the living spirit.

The general rule seems to be that if it's a bad thing that involves something from outside the plane, it's turnable. (even though 1E allowed for turning paladins, I thought that might be going too far and disallowed that, it would make no sense to turn paladins and not clerics with that logic)

It does seem that way (for 1E at least). But in 2E, it says under the "Special" category for the Turning Undead Table:

"Special creatures include unique undead, free-willed undead of the Negative Material Plane, certain Lesser and Greater Powers, and those that dwell in the outer planes."

So elementals, salamanders, etc would be excluded from turning despite being from other planes, since they're not from the outer planes but rather the inner planes.

Adidamps wrote:

The Guide to Hell , a 2nd edition supplement, has a Cleric turning table for this as well. but I believe you're right that the PHB does not have a turning table for Demons/devil in it.

I was never fond of the ability of evil clerics to turn paladins, although it does make sense mechanically.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Sangalor wrote:

Incidentally - I am putting a little effort into compiling a table of undead with HD and source for 2nd ed resources. I'll get all the stuff in that I can and then start working my way through Dragon etc. I'll distribute it to anyone who is interested - just let me know. (It will take some time though!)

It's cool extra stuff like this that can help flesh out the downloads area. Want to set it up as a download here?

[Sangalor]

Sangalor wrote:

Incidentally - I am putting a little effort into compiling a table of undead with HD and source for 2nd ed resources. I'll get all the stuff in that I can and then start working my way through Dragon etc. I'll distribute it to anyone who is interested - just let me know. (It will take some time though!)

It's cool extra stuff like this that can help flesh out the downloads area. Want to set it up as a download here?

I'll let you know when its done - I'll then start expanding it out into categories after the undead one is finished.
(I'm fairly technologically challenged so I'll leave it to you guys to set up as you see fit.)

[Doirche]

This is great stuff everyone. I appreciate all the feedback this thread has gotten. It will help me tremendously on my own megadungeon project.

Thanks Again!

-D