Undermountain questions

[Sangalor]

Hi - 2 questions which may/may not have implications for the BiP Undermountain project;

1. TSR published a novel "Escape from Undermountain" which seemed like a bit of showcase for the (generally discredited) product RoU II.

Has this novel influenced and/or been taken into account with the development? General comments/thoughts would also be appreciated on the novel and its content too if you feel inclined.

2. RoU I refers to Halaster taking over the lair of the dwarves (duergar?) while building Undermountain. Has very much of this fact been taken into account with the development of the project? I haven't seen much reference to dwarves in Undermountain products outside of the Lost Level module. (Please correct me if I'm wrong btw).

*I've often wondered about whether Halaster could have access to controlled Duergar wraiths/spectres (or other undead) which could be very dangerous for PC's.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Sangalor wrote:

Has this novel influenced and/or been taken into account with the development? General comments/thoughts would also be appreciated on the novel and its content too if you feel inclined.

I got this book as a gift from a good friend. And when friends give me a gift, I find that it's rare for me to dislike it no matter how bad it is. I get attached to the thought behind it I guess. Not in this case though!

The novel sucked so hard, I thought I'd opened a black hole! A gargoyle crying because he lost his wings?

The description of how Halaster runs Undermountain was interesting, but ultimately dissatisfying. It was such a badly done novel that I can't even remember most of it.

2. RoU I refers to Halaster taking over the lair of the dwarves (duergar?) while building Undermountain. Has very much of this fact been taken into account with the development of the project? I haven't seen much reference to dwarves in Undermountain products outside of the Lost Level module. (Please correct me if I'm wrong btw).

*I've often wondered about whether Halaster could have access to controlled Duergar wraiths/spectres (or other undead) which could be very dangerous for PC's.

Someone's been taking a sneak peek at my notes!

[McDeath]

From what I can tell just based on pg 4 of ROU:

As soon as the mithril was worked out, the duergar moved on. In the days of the Fallen Kingdom, most of the drow were slaughtered in vicious battles with surface elves. Halaster himself is thought to have eradicated the last organized remnants of The Dark Folk.

I'd be guessing the Duergar are long gone but who's to say. It wouldn't be a very large force of Duergar if there were any.

[Sangalor]

Thanks McDeath - I wasn't sure whether Halaster wiped out the dwarves or they had moved on. I thought that he had wiped the duergar out, but I was confused with the Drow! (Still, controlled Drow special undead could be very unpleasant too!)

Hal - as to the novel, I thought most of it seemed like a plug for the RoU II expansion though I didn't mind the idea of Halaster messing around with the giant model of Undermountain, although much like yourself I thought it not quite there in terms of explaining the situation.

IMO, the writer was probably encouraged to write his story around the expansion which is never really good for the story esp. if the expansion is sub-standard which RoU II apparently is.

The best part of the novel was the introduction. It struck me as an authentic Undermountain feel but the rest was merely ok.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Sangalor wrote:

Hal - as to the novel, I thought most of it seemed like a plug for the RoU II expansion though I didn't mind the idea of Halaster messing around with the giant model of Undermountain, although much like yourself I thought it not quite there in terms of explaining the situation.

I wonder if it was meant as a plug for RoUII? That might make sense. And also explain the let down!

I wonder if I'd have liked the explanation in the book (Halaster's miniature "control dungeon") more if the rest of it had been done better or if they had explained it better. It does have an interesting feel to it, but...

[Sangalor]

Sangalor wrote:

Hal - as to the novel, I thought most of it seemed like a plug for the RoU II expansion though I didn't mind the idea of Halaster messing around with the giant model of Undermountain, although much like yourself I thought it not quite there in terms of explaining the situation.

I wonder if it was meant as a plug for RoUII? That might make sense. And also explain the let down!

I wonder if I'd have liked the explanation in the book (Halaster's miniature "control dungeon") more if the rest of it had been done better or if they had explained it better. It does have an interesting feel to it, but...

The novel certainly outlines the areas fleshed out in RoUII (Wyllowwood etc).
I agree though that the story isn't the best though - its dissapointing because the author did a couple of much better FR novels/stories.

[McDeath]

A gargoyle crying because he lost his wings?

Sounds like the author was taking stuff out of the "Gargoyle" adventure for Greyhawk. Good Grief!

Definitely be sure to reread the early pages in the ROU Campaign Guide. The explanation as to why Halaster left the world of men to become a near dungeon hermit is quite interesting. I rather liked reading about the 7 apprentices; one of which fled and became a magister, two which died when Halaster abandoned his tower complex, which leaves 4 still alive I believe (Trobriand, Muiral, and some others that I forget). Actually, the explanation leaves more questions than answers as no one really know why Halaster went all bonkers. Well, I suppose he might know or is unwilling to let anyone else know, assuming he is bonkers.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

McDeath wrote:

Actually, the explanation leaves more questions than answers as no one really know why Halaster went all bonkers. Well, I suppose he might know or is unwilling to let anyone else know, assuming he is bonkers.

Oh, I'm sure somebody knows! [whistles to self]

[Sangalor]

I'm not sure that the gargoyle loses its wings but it does cry about not being able to guard 2 of Halaster's undead apprentices. Anyways, it is not the highlight of the story.

As to Halaster's madness etc I think it was explored in one of the recent FR novels (Blackstaff?). I haven't read it but I do recall reading somewhere that they tie it in with the events from Stardock and have Hal take revenge on one of the figures who kidnapped him and there is some relationship with Mystra and/or Shar...

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Sangalor wrote:

I'm not sure that the gargoyle loses its wings but it does cry about not being able to guard 2 of Halaster's undead apprentices. Anyways, it is not the highlight of the story

Ah, you're right! I got it mixed up with that hideous Greyhawk module!

But yeah, the gargoyle crying just made me wanna hurl. Almost as much as the insane lesbian druidess who chases around her undead husband looking for forgiveness.

As to Halaster's madness etc I think it was explored in one of the recent FR novels (Blackstaff?). I haven't read it but I do recall reading somewhere that they tie it in with the events from Stardock and have Hal take revenge on one of the figures who kidnapped him and there is some relationship with Mystra and/or Shar...

It sounds stupid, as the entire Stardock module was. Halaster is only crazy inside Undermountain. Bah! Then anyone staying down there for any length of time must be crazy. Makes no sense. It explains in the original that his dealings with bizarre other planar creatures and evil beings made him crazy. That and being locked away from fellow humans for so long. It's a permanent condition, not dependent on being inside Undermountain.

[McDeath]

Scratched that out realizing the husband was the undead.... bleh. Lesbian druidiss though, I bet she can work up some magic in the bedroom.

[Halaster Blackcloak]

Well, they never explicitly said she was lesbian, it's just the way I like to paint it because she only hangs out with her lady friend now. It's just bizarre.

[Sangalor]

Hal -

With Stardock, when Hal is kidnapped, don't monsters start pouring out of gates/entrances to Undermountain and attack Waterdeep?

I think that has some entertaining possibilities.

[McDeath]

Did that exist? Halaster Kidnapped? Oh boy! That's one supplement he'd rather see in the dumpster if he ever admitted to its existence.

[Sangalor]

The idea, as Hal has discussed before, is not the best. The only good aspect (IMO) is the hordes of monsters (and undead victims of UM) that start emerging all over Waterdeep and causing mayhem.